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ScarletBegonias
11-09-2009, 01:51 PM
Cosco jumps off and onto the couch, off the back of the couch, on/off the bed, into the car, etc all the time. It doesn't seem to bother him at all. He's not full Doxie so his leg length to back length ratio is not so extreme and he seems to have much more bend in his back than lots of Doxies I've seen. Its noticeable in the way he sits and lays with a more curved posture than I think most Dox could muster (could be wrong here).
Anywho, my question is, is this something I should worry about/try to stop? I'll gladly buy him some steps but I have a feeling he wont use them unless I'm very serious about not letting him on the couch unless he does.
My gut feeling is that he's a hardy little pup and that it wont be a problem for him, at least until he's older but I wanted to put it up for discussion from you guys.
My main concern is that maybe even though its not a problem now, its something that might cause him to have problems later (like old guys with high school sports injuries that still plague them) and I dont want to take any chances with him, he's such a special dog, I need him around and healthy for a very long time.

Otto'sMom
11-09-2009, 01:56 PM
It has been my experience that the mixes are a bit more hardy where the back is concerned, but you can see where any breed can injure themselves that way. Dachshunds are just more prone to it legs to back ratio wise. A dachshund can live it's whole life running and jumping off of things and never injure it's back. It can be sitting doing nothing and have a disc rupture. Tis the nature of the disease IVDD.
I'd err on the side of caution, using ramps where you can. A 100 dollar ramp is a helluva lot more affordable than a 2.7K back surgery.

lsudachs18
11-09-2009, 02:04 PM
Also Dachshunds are not the only breed to have back problems. Lots of little dogs can hurt themselves. A friend of mine has a friend with a Pap that went down.

areese
11-09-2009, 04:29 PM
They are finding that more breeds lately are having back problems...I don't think anyone knows why.
With Dachshunds it is not cuz of the short legs and long back (although that doesn't help) but the premature aging of the discs. They become brittle and can rupture.
There are no actual studies that say jumping , sitting up, stairs, etc. are what makes the discs rupture but it is commonly believed that those things aren't good for them. Same with being overweight. It SEEMS as if those things would create problems but like Andrea said, there are dogs that never go up and down a step or jump EVER and they still have problems. In fact, puppy mill dogs that have never been out of a crate in their life go down. It very seldom is directly connected with a specific event.
I use ramps now (for the bed and off the deck) and they aren't allowed on the furniture anymore but then again..I do agility still so...Owen does jump some. But only 4 inches. Which isn't much of a jump.
I THOUGHT that if my dog was slender and strong, it would prevent problems but it did not, as Laika went down. It cost us over $6,000 but they did fix her up and she's perfect now.
Owen also sits up for about 3/4 of his life and I can't make him stop. It's hardwired in this silly dog I guess.

LexieLuvr
11-09-2009, 08:25 PM
ITA with Andrea and Amy - and I recommend ramps rather than steps. Try to dissuade your furkid from jumping, if at all possible - no sense in tempting fate! My Jack, who is the most active, agile and physically wild dog I've ever seen, went down in his back a couple of months ago. Luckily, he's pretty well recovered, but he's the LAST dog I ever dreamed would have back issues, because he's muscular and very active. Lexie, my part Corgi/dachsie furgirl, has a calcified disk (so does Jack, I've been told), and I've expected her to have back issues ever since the day I got her -- but she's been perfect! There's no way to know - and it's so silly to take chances. Get ramps, and train them to use them. It CAN be done!

oceangirls
11-09-2009, 08:37 PM
I tend to think - unfortunately - that it's genetic, and if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. It's VERY hard to keep doxies from jumping. Mine jump on and off a low couch but they're not on beds and we have no stairs, so those things aren't a problem. As far as sitting up, I can see no reason why that would be a problem... if anything it should strengthen the support muscles of the back, abdomen, and hips to maybe prevent future injuries.

I do yell at my husband if he tries to pick them up when they are on their backs... they get excited and try to twist around too much and that bothers me :(

areese
11-09-2009, 09:49 PM
I. As far as sitting up, I can see no reason why that would be a problem... if anything it should strengthen the support muscles of the back, abdomen, and hips to maybe prevent future injuries.
:(

I know...all the things you do with a "regular" dog to strengthen back and abdomen muscles are things they say don't do with dachshubds...sitting up, running up and down hills, standing on their hind legs. I dunno...I don't understand it cuz it seems you'd want those muscles to be as strong as possible.

ScarletBegonias
11-09-2009, 11:34 PM
Thats why I love this site, I get so many good answers and perspectives. My bed is not on a frame and the couch seat is not more than two feet, but I think I will try to more strongly discourage the jumping from the back of the couch (a solid 4 foot probably) and save up for a ramp.
Has there been any studies on the use of supplements like calcium or some of the things that we humans take for bone issues?
I also realized in the course of this discussion, I dont know precisely what is meant by "going down." Is that just a catch-all for general back problems or is is specific medical problem of its own?

MyRescueCrew
11-09-2009, 11:44 PM
I have a ramp for my small guys to get on and off the sofa, but they refuse to use it. They fly on and off the sofa like it's nothing, no matter how hard I try to stop them. When I can, I usually pick them up or set them down, as opposed to letting them jump.

Doesn't always take jumping to injure their backs though. Gracie's went out last year because she was out in the yard pottying, and one of the other dogs ran into her trying to play. I found the impact to be extremely mild compared to what she's like when she's rough-housing with the crew. But apparently it smacked her in the right spot because her back went numb and she couldn't walk. Thankfully weeks of steroids fixed the problem and no surgery was needed.

Annie's not even a doxie and her back went out. Still to this day we question exactly how. Last year, I put her in her kennel, went to work, came home to let her out and she was completely paralyzed. She was on steroids for months, and still to this day has a weak back-end and a hunched back, but can run like the wind once she starts going. X-rays showed that her back going out was due to a slipped disc due to severe degenerative disc disease. :scratch:

Kasianni
03-23-2010, 04:18 PM
He may be a young pup now but the sooner he knows what he is and isn't allowed to do will be for him when he is older.
I have a ramp for the bed, stairs for the couch, everything I need, however, Theo thinks he can fly and sometimes just launches off the bed before I can catch him. I cringe every time. He loves to run and jump and its hard to stop him sometimes. I try, but can't always catch him.

oceangirls
03-23-2010, 09:01 PM
Very true - much easier to teach them what they should and shouldn't do when they are little!


I dont know precisely what is meant by "going down." Is that just a catch-all for general back problems or is is specific medical problem of its own?

I think we (doxie people) usually use the term "going down" to represent a loss of function (paralysis) when a disc is damaged from IVDD - which could be either temporary (recovery with crate rest and meds to reduce the inflammation) OR requiring surgical intervention OR permanent.

Jacqueline
03-23-2010, 10:40 PM
If you can get your furkid to not jump, up or down, then that is the way to go. Having said that - sigh, good luck. Daisy and Taffy are jumpers. Mindy and Molly have me pick them up to get up, but jump down. Taffy is the only one who will use steps, ever. Of course, she could be an agility dog if she didn't have doxie attention deficit problems (does not listen to mom), and not an ounce of fat.

I worry about them leaping like lizards at meal time. Even Molly can leap waist high. Sheesh.

If you can get them to use ramps, I would.

Alex's Mom
03-24-2010, 06:44 AM
ITA with everything that's been said. My first dachsie, Maxe, went down when she was 6, but Alex, who did a lot more jumping up and down than Maxe, never did. Many years ago a wonderful older vet I knew said that in his experience, the more flexible the dog, the more prone to IVDD it was. Don't know if that's so or not, but I do know that Maxe could just about curl herself inside out and went down, while for as long as she lived, Alex literally couldn't even scratch her own ear or head, or reach her nether regions (every cloud :rolleyes: ). I worry about James because he's very flexible (if he was a horse, he'd be an AWESOME dressage horse) and I just can't get him to stop jumping off bed and couch :sosad:.

And it's not just long backed dogs...Suzanne (where Dax is) recently was fostering a 8 year old black lab, former field dog, for lab rescue. He went to his new home on Saturday, but was kinda wobbly. He lost his balance at the new house and fell down a short flight of steps (3), and went down. The new owners immediately returned him back to Suzanne's ( :mad1:), and she and Laura have been treating him with drugs and acupuncture. He's apparently getting a bit better, and I think Suzanne may just keep him. We'll see. At any rate, my own belief is that doing normal stuff is good, but try not to do excessive stuff. I agree Kim, it always scares me when they do that twisty thing when you pick them up :shocked:

areese
03-24-2010, 08:44 AM
Thats why I love this site, I get so many good answers and perspectives. My bed is not on a frame and the couch seat is not more than two feet, but I think I will try to more strongly discourage the jumping from the back of the couch (a solid 4 foot probably) and save up for a ramp.
Has there been any studies on the use of supplements like calcium or some of the things that we humans take for bone issues?
I also realized in the course of this discussion, I dont know precisely what is meant by "going down." Is that just a catch-all for general back problems or is is specific medical problem of its own?

There aren't any studies that show that supplements have any effect on the disc issues with dogs. The ones humans typically take (glucosomine) aren't thought to affect disc health but a lot of people (myself included) give it anyway cuz it's not going to hurt. Calcium builds bone but that's not the issue here really and too much calcium can be a bad thing.
I personally supplement with fish oil (it's a natural anti-inflamatory as well as good in other ways) and vitamin E. Some people use vitamin C also for back health. I also give mine tofu every other day since Laika's surgery cuz it is good for the mylenin sheaths that surround the nerves and she had residual nerve damage (gone now). But some dogs are allergic to soy.
I used to have a link to a diet for dachshunds by this guy but can't find it..
http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/AltMed/WienerDog/IVD_AltMed.htm
"going down" refers to the paralysis that occurs when a disc is ruptured/ Laika never was totally paralyzed but one leg was very much affected and was dragging. Dogs can be totally paralyzed and lose pain sensation, bladder and bowel control, hence the term.

areese
03-24-2010, 08:51 AM
I don't know about the flexibility...I know the neuro surgeon where my sister attends vet school thinks they SHOULD be flexible.
Owen is much more flexible than Laika (he's like a WORM) and has not had any problems but Laika has. But how we define flexible is another thing, prob. What I notice with mine is when Laika walks, she has always had a sway to her hips. Her but moves back and forth. We always thought it ws so cute. Owen is juse one solid piece with his legs moving. But he can twist into a preztel I swear. Laika not so much, although of course she can turn into a donut for sleeping :)
It's important when you pick them up to not let them "dangle" but to support the rear end but Laika has done her share of thrashing like a fish when picked up...sigh... esp when being removed from the freaking OPOSSUM (yes it is back)


ITA with everything that's been said. My first dachsie, Maxe, went down when she was 6, but Alex, who did a lot more jumping up and down than Maxe, never did. Many years ago a wonderful older vet I knew said that in his experience, the more flexible the dog, the more prone to IVDD it was. Don't know if that's so or not, but I do know that Maxe could just about curl herself inside out and went down, while for as long as she lived, Alex literally couldn't even scratch her own ear or head, or reach her nether regions (every cloud :rolleyes: ). I worry about James because he's very flexible (if he was a horse, he'd be an AWESOME dressage horse) and I just can't get him to stop jumping off bed and couch :sosad:.

And it's not just long backed dogs...Suzanne (where Dax is) recently was fostering a 8 year old black lab, former field dog, for lab rescue. He went to his new home on Saturday, but was kinda wobbly. He lost his balance at the new house and fell down a short flight of steps (3), and went down. The new owners immediately returned him back to Suzanne's ( :mad1:), and she and Laura have been treating him with drugs and acupuncture. He's apparently getting a bit better, and I think Suzanne may just keep him. We'll see. At any rate, my own belief is that doing normal stuff is good, but try not to do excessive stuff. I agree Kim, it always scares me when they do that twisty thing when you pick them up :shocked: