...or bad human?

[Alex's Mom]

As you know, my James is entirely too smart for his own good and can get very aggressive very quickly. He bit me many times (bad bites) when he fiirst came, and I've come to realize with him that escalating a situation just makes it worse. Like with my boy Dax the softly softly approach works best with him.

So.....last Friday my friends were all here for our Christmas lunch. James was being really demanding, barking for attention, and wanting up etc. Normally I just have to say no firmly and give him "the look" and he backs off. Now one of my friends has very different ideas about training...she's big on the alpha roll etc. So she started "training" him with everyone here. She started out by growling at him. James, wondering who this idiot woman was, growled back. I told Cathy to not do that, cuz he'd bite. Does she listen?? No, she growls some more and then says "well, I sure hoped you scruffed him when he's bitten you". No, I haven't. He bites, then realizes what he's done and is instantly guilty and totally ashamed of himself. When he gets "mouthy" I just look him in the eye and say "brain before mouth, please" firmly. It's probably the tone of voice, but he usually backs down, and I make a big fuss of him and it's all good. However, he started getting really stressed and cranky, and boy! do I recognize the look he gave Cathy!! Teeth next, no question. I just picked him up and put him in the bedroom and he was fine. But Cathy then proceeded to give me a piece of her mind about my dog training abilities. I thought that was a) incredibly rude to do in my house with my dog, and b) made me wonder if I'm going about this the right way? Thoughts?

[AgileOllie]

First, I'd like to say I love your "brain before mouth" comment and I'm stating up front that I'm gonna steal it. LOL

Second, I think that she was out of line. No one knows your dog better than you do and the way you handle it has been working for you. If I was you, I'd have let him bite her LOL.

Seriously, though, I know that you did the right thing. I hope you gave her a piece of your mind!

[wawailc]

Does your friend have dogs? Does James live with her? How many times has she been around you and James together? I find it extremely rude of someone to come into your house and tell you how to train your dog. I could see if that was her profession, but it seems like you two just use different tactics. You know what works for you and your dogs. Just my opionion...

[areese]

I certainly would not PROVOKE a dog and then scruff him when he does what it natural. SHE started the aggression, what does she think he's going to do???
James isn't aggressive, anyway, is he?? I would think he is fearful and reacts before he thinks (hence his shamed reaction after) so your brain before mouth statment is right on....
Now if he started out acting aggressive to her, I'd say remove him from the situation immediately. Perhaps your friend needed to go sit in the bedroom for growling...

[lotsadox]

I agree with Tonya. I'm gonna use "brains before mouth" :rotfl::rotfl:

What you are doing with James has worked and seems to be still working. I tend to be really practical about training. If it works, keep doing it. What you are doing is working so keep doing it.

I'm not really sure about the whole cuffing thing. I think that it may just instill more fear which with my dogs is why they get agressive in the first place. Some dogs don't respond to rough treatment. Miller is like that. You have to treat him gently or it makes him more fearful and thus more agressive. Now Scooter is another story. You have to be pretty pushy with him or he doesn't think you're serious. So I have scruffed him and pushed him with my knee. He doesn't understand it if you are too subtle.

Do what you know works and you're always okay.

Edit: I also think that she was very rude.

[Lisa]

The was a recent show on 16/9 (global) that addressed methods of dog training.

1) If she has never had a dachshund in her life she needs to shut the bleep up. I personally would never scruff a dog that is so prone to back issue(s) and unless another dogs life is in danger I would not toss them around.

2) Different approaches (like food/drugs/etc) work with different dogs. If they were all the same life would be easy. But they ALL come with different baggage and different learning ability and YOUR job (not someone else) is to figure out what works best with your dog.

3) If you are having difficulty communicating with your dog (which you obviously are not), you should see a professional dog behaviorist.

I am now reading "click to calm...healing the aggressive dog" and I am really enjoying it. But it sound irrelevant to this conversation, because you and James clearly have a bond and understanding with each other! Cathy friend or not would not be coming back to my house!! I wouldn't end the friendship, but would be really steamed.

[Alex's Mom]

I certainly would not PROVOKE a dog and then scruff him when he does what it natural. SHE started the aggression, what does she think he's going to do???
James isn't aggressive, anyway, is he?? I would think he is fearful and reacts before he thinks (hence his shamed reaction after) so your brain before mouth statment is right on....
Now if he started out acting aggressive to her, I'd say remove him from the situation immediately. Perhaps your friend needed to go sit in the bedroom for growling...

Nope, he's not aggressive by nature, but he is dominant, and bery. bery. smart, and gets a bit above himself. He's constantly challenging (politely) for alpha with me, but he respects me for the most part. I know what worked with Alex...after all, I dealt with an extreme case of fear-based aggression for 15 years. I never did anything forceful with her except on the two occasions when she tried to kill Maxe, and then tried to gut the cat. She had it coming on those occasions. But in all her life, Alex never so much as gave me a dirty look. She was mine, heart, body and soul. I suspect that James would have been the same way if I'd had him from a puppy. I think he probably had his late mom a bit intimidated, and she let him get away with a lot. That changed when he came here and had to understand that there are rules in this house and they need to be followed. He doesn't always agree, and often challenges, but not because he's aggressive, but cuz he's smart.

You're right T, I should have just let him bite her :rotfl: (or not :)).

She did start the aggression when I think about it. She growled at him, he was just being a pest. Nothing a firm no wouldn't have managed. I was off getting food ready and didn't see the beginning of the episode.

Thanks for making me feel better...I was really beginning to doubt myself!

[HokieMom]

Millie is my first Doxie... so I'm not very experienced with her... However...

We've had Border Collies for decades and done a fair amount of training with ours, plus I did rescue for them for a few years.

One thing I have learned, just like people, all dogs are different. How one learns, another may not. YOU are the one who knows your dog better than anyone. We had to spend time with our rescues to find out if they were 'soft'... or so wired that a flock of birds flying overhead turned them 'on'.

YOU know your dog... and there are a few things that set me off about this person...

1. More than one way to do something right.. you know your dog and what works.

2. Her obvious desire to exert HER 'alpha-ness' in front of the group of people by putting you down and calling you out on your training techniques.:wtf2:

3. In my non-professional opinion - SHE needed to be scruffed and alpha-rolled. :rotfl:

Go with your gut on this one.. you know your dog.

[RustysMom]

what kind of human growls at a dog? very strange.

:ditto: to all above.

[AgileOllie]

what kind of human growls at a dog? very strange.

:ditto: to all above.

I have. LOL It can be a useful training technique for the right type of dog. Typically it's used to show a dominant dog that you (the alpha) are more dominant. It should only be used by people who know what they are doing and to dogs they are responsible for- not other people's dogs.

[Alex's Mom]

what kind of human growls at a dog? very strange.

:ditto: to all above.

I have too. It worked really really well with Alex. but I wouldn't do it with these three.

[RustysMom]

I was just kidding, but hey if it helps! Ive never done that with my dogs. Id probably do it wrong or get laughed at :rotfl:

[Red Haired Girl]

You did the right thing by removing James from a stressful situation. Obviously Cathy didn't take the hint to quit growling, and continued growling at you. You should have bit her.

[doxiemommy3]

You did the right thing by removing James from a stressful situation. Obviously Cathy didn't take the hint to quit growling, and continued growling at you. You should have bit her.
:ditto::ditto: esp the biting part

I do not growl at my weens but Kenna lovesssss puppy sounds and goes nutty, by kissing, loving and jumping all over me if I make those sounds...afraid she would kill me in my sleep if I growl at her.
She did try to play alpha over me awhile back and quickly got put back in place with just a simple look and a firm no at ween level.

[bittyup]

Deep breath.:dunno:Hugh sigh.:doh: O.K. this lady is a certified dog trainer where? All dogs are different. To me it sound like James has some insecurity issues that make him feel fearful. One episode like that can set a dogs training back to start. I recently saw Victoria Stillwell at a local theater and she was speaking of that exact thing. Her opinion the alpha roll and all that for an insecure dog was that all it does is help him lose trust in you. You wouldn't train a Dachs like that anyway. :krazy:Oye!

[Kasianni]

Paula, don't doubt yourself, your house, your dog, your rules! You know James better than anyone else and know what works and what doesn't with him. I too feel she was rather rude.

[ScarletBegonias]

easy....bad human

[bittyup]

Paula, don't doubt yourself, your house, your dog, your rules! You know James better than anyone else and know what works and what doesn't with him. I too feel she was rather rude.

:ditto::ditto::ditto:

[OwnedByDoxies]

You did the right thing by removing James from a stressful situation. Obviously Cathy didn't take the hint to quit growling, and continued growling at you. You should have bit her.

I agree and this one made me spit my coffee LOL