My little old man is having back issues :(

[Chris]

Hi,

It has been ages since I have been around - I may not ring a bell to a lot of folks but I do see a lot of familiar names still.

Alex, the older of my two "boy dogs" (age 11) is having disc troubles. I am a bit "all over the place" right at the moment but trying not to flip out.

Usually, when the weather gets very cold and damp he is slightly achy, so when he was a little more sensitive than normal, I put him on crate rest. More so, what bothered me is that he wasn't merely just weather sensitive but he started to wobble in the back. I took him to the vet after a conservative move of crate rest just to make sure he didn't lay on his leg funny or something simple. Also, I know to try to get the swelling down before any x-rays could be done.

Well- long story short, the vet did an x-ray and found a slipped disc. There just is no nice, even space between disc 5 and 6. When he walks to go potty, it is like he should be picking his legs up an inch higher because he is knuckling them a bit, or his one leg is crossing or getting tangled up. he can move them, but it reminds me of someone on stilts or a baby bird trying to walk.

He is on prednisone right now and on 10 days of crate rest. I needed time to breathe and think before immediately saying yes to surgery, and of course, try to come up with the money. I am hoping that something wonderful happens and that there was just swelling and he is good as new, but I am also worried on the other end too.

I am going back and reading what is here, and on Dodgerslist and Amy pointed out that a lot of dogs can recover form 8 weeks of strict crate rest, but I just wish I had a magic crystal ball telling me how I can be the best mommy to Alex right now. I want to make the right decision for his treatment and know that it probably means eating ramen noodles and selling everything I own, but he is worth it.

I have just read an article that talks about partially ruptured discs, etc, and am hoping that I can discern if he falls into this category or not.

btw, the other little monkey is doing just fine, but is noticeably worried about his big brother. Yes, they are being kept separated, but he still is very concerned just like his mom.

[Lisa]

:hello4: Chris! I totally remember you and your handsome boys. My little guy Pixel (age 7) is going through the exact same thing you describe.

He is on 8 weeks of crate rest, prednisone and tramadol right now. If he is still showing pain, you might want to ask your vet about adding tramadol (or a muscle relaxer) for the pain.

Pixel went down on 12/17, and since then is showing improvement. However, he does have good days and bad days. I know it sounds weird, but he even has good hours and bad hours. He is really strong in the morning, then he seems more in pain between 11 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. and then he is strong again in the evening. Again, he is on 100% crate rest, but this is what we are observing from his potty breaks.

If you are not already doing it, you might want to use a tensor bandage or scarf under is back legs to give him support when going potty.

Oh and on the Pred, sleep becomes a thing of the past. I am on vacation and it is 5:23 a.m. and I have been up since 4:30 because the Pred makes them have to potty more :faint: So I apologize for this post being all over the place.

You can look into acupuncture or laser therapy for him. We are going to start Pix on it this week, I am just waiting for a call from the rehab team.

It is so hard to see our little guys in pain! I know each case is different, but conservative treatment can work in so many cases. I truly get your frustration, because each case is so different there is not time line, which is so challenging. If someone would tell me...okay, you will see no improvement week 1 so don't look for any. Week 2, this, this and this should happen, by week 3 if you don't have A then you need to do B, but there isn't a play by play manual for this so you feel helpless. :faint: There is lots of guilt, tears, stress, fear....there is also hope, friendship and love. I am glad to see you back on the DLC, I just wish it was under better circumstances. :bighug: You and your boy will make it through this. I am sending you lots of rayz. :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz:

[oceangirls]

Chris! I was thinking about you the other day for some reason. I am sorry to hear about Alex :(. please keep us updated

[lotsadox]

Hi Chris :welcome4: I definitely remember you. It's good to see you here again even thought it's not under the best of circumstances.

I've been thru back problems 3 times. One dog had surgery the other two were older (13 and 15) and I elected to not do surgery and go with meds and crate rest and chiro (VOM). All three recovered but it's not easy. Since he's not down, you do have time to make a decision.

I had good luck with crate rest, meds, and chiro. Accupuncture and the new laser are also options. I'll be interested to hear how Pixel does with the laser. As Lisa said, when they are on Pred, sleep becomes an option. Bogart was up at least once a night and very demanding in between. I also had to watch him because once he was on meds he thought he was super dog and wanted to run and go up and down stairs :faint:

It's a very stressful time, but you can do it. Have you checked into Care Credit? It might give you a bit of breathing room and time to pay back the costs of treatment or surgery.

Please keep us updated on how you and Alex are doing :hug99::hug99:

[Rae]

Oh honey! :bighug: I am so sorry your baby is wobbly - it is a very scary thing and I am so glad you came here to share!

Duchie has gone wobbly twice, and crate rest and prednisone have been wonderful for her - no surgery. Be sure you turn into "a real meanie" on the crate rest and really really enforce it.

One of the best things I found during the 8 weeks from hell was use of a dog stroller. Duchie had one already but had I known how helpful it would be to simply roll her room to room wherever I way, I'd have bought one anyway.
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: x a bajillion for your sweet baby and please keep us updated.

Looking forward to a full, non-surgical recovery!! :cheer3::cheer3::cheer3:

[lotsadox]

I agree with Rae, the stroller saved my sanity with Bogart. Bogart had to always have me in his sight. When he didn't, he barked until he could see me :rolleyes: So I got a stroller and rolled him around with me. I'd even leave him in it to sleep after taking him out during the night. If he was right next to the bed, he'd go back to sleep so I could try to get some more sleep. I know Amy put the crate on a cart to move Laika from room to room. I think they just mostly want to be with you. :hearts:

[Chris]

Thanks guys. I am really all over the place myself. He is starting tramydol as soon as I drive back - I am on my way in about an hour. He is in crazy pain when the pred wears off so I am trying to overlap the two doses better - but once the pill kicks in, he is much more pleasant (happy) and not bitey. I had that scare this morning but we go through it. Unfortunately, he is not using his back legs much so I guess I can't do the 6-8 weeks crate rest thing, right? He is sort of using them to pivot on but not using them like I would like. I am going to get him into a neuro as soon as I can but fear about doing the right thing/not doing the right thing. Crate rest sounds good to me, but I don't want to confuse being an overreactive scared momma vs what is actually happening.

I am going to craigslist and ebay off a bunch of my stuff if I can, but in the meantime I am going to keep him with the crate rest, say lots of prayers and try to do the right thing by Alex.

[AgileOllie]

Poor little guy! I hope he feels better soon!

[lotsadox]

A visit to the neuro would definitely be good. It's totally different with every dog. Bandit was completely down and 13 years old. At that age, we didn't want to do surgery and opted for crate rest, meds and chiro. I don't really think anyone thought she'd walk again except me. I had a friend who did healing touch therapy and she's the one that really got her up walking again. This was about 8 or 9 years ago and there are a lot of new promising treatments that weren't around then (or at least no one told me about them).

It's a very stressful time. Don't forget to take care of yourself :hug99::hug99:

[Chris]

A visit to the neuro would definitely be good. It's totally different with every dog. Bandit was completely down and 13 years old. At that age, we didn't want to do surgery and opted for crate rest, meds and chiro. I don't really think anyone thought she'd walk again except me. I had a friend who did healing touch therapy and she's the one that really got her up walking again. This was about 8 or 9 years ago and there are a lot of new promising treatments that weren't around then (or at least no one told me about them).

It's a very stressful time. Don't forget to take care of yourself :hug99::hug99:

I am hoping that it works for him. if the neuro says he is a candidate for surgery, though, i may have to go for it just because he is beyond wobbly. That story does give me faith. I wondered though if the chiro would work but didnt think it would because it is usually for dislocated stuff, not busted stuff. Also, did bandit have a slipped disk or was it something different? I know that diagnostic tests are different back then

Unfortunately, I don't qualify for care credit right now and am trying to find out what I need to do to get it and I have been quoted at $7-10k for surgery and related tests. I am going to go to a neuro for a counsult and then if I have to sell my car, etc, that's just what I will have to do. I just hope that there is another way besides surgery, but if there isn't, I will do what I have to do.

[Chris]

:hello4: Chris! I totally remember you and your handsome boys. My little guy Pixel (age 7) is going through the exact same thing you describe.

He is on 8 weeks of crate rest, prednisone and tramadol right now. If he is still showing pain, you might want to ask your vet about adding tramadol (or a muscle relaxer) for the pain.

Pixel went down on 12/17, and since then is showing improvement. However, he does have good days and bad days. I know it sounds weird, but he even has good hours and bad hours. He is really strong in the morning, then he seems more in pain between 11 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. and then he is strong again in the evening. Again, he is on 100% crate rest, but this is what we are observing from his potty breaks.

If you are not already doing it, you might want to use a tensor bandage or scarf under is back legs to give him support when going potty.

Oh and on the Pred, sleep becomes a thing of the past. I am on vacation and it is 5:23 a.m. and I have been up since 4:30 because the Pred makes them have to potty more :faint: So I apologize for this post being all over the place.

You can look into acupuncture or laser therapy for him. We are going to start Pix on it this week, I am just waiting for a call from the rehab team.

It is so hard to see our little guys in pain! I know each case is different, but conservative treatment can work in so many cases. I truly get your frustration, because each case is so different there is not time line, which is so challenging. If someone would tell me...okay, you will see no improvement week 1 so don't look for any. Week 2, this, this and this should happen, by week 3 if you don't have A then you need to do B, but there isn't a play by play manual for this so you feel helpless. :faint: There is lots of guilt, tears, stress, fear....there is also hope, friendship and love. I am glad to see you back on the DLC, I just wish it was under better circumstances. :bighug: You and your boy will make it through this. I am sending you lots of rayz. :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz:

is he just wobbly or totally down? I have been told by the vet that I need to have surgery on him if he loses his pain sensation (in Laika's case this was the case too). Does Pix have pain sensation? Alex does. He will yelp, etc., but I am freaked that it will go away.

I don't have cmplete computer access at this moment so my responses will be far between but I am hoping to check in frequently.

[Lisa]

Pixel definitely has pain. Pixel was doing a very serious drunken sailor walk, although his walking is stronger, he still sometimes yelps in pain, which is totally heart wrenching. 7 - 10K seems VERY high. Pogo's was around the $6K mark (which is high because I am in Canada).

Here is an article on IVDD (http://www.12many.com/duchwood/backproblems.html). Just an FYI, I consulted two vets (at my practice) and they consulted probably one of the best neurologists in Canada and she (nor my vets) would never ever give a dog the dose of steroids stated. I am linking the article because it does have really good information in it, but I just want you to read it as information, not a cure!!

First I would try laser or acupuncture to manage the pain (along with the drugs).

Second, from my understanding, dogs can come back from severe paralysis with just crate rest and steroids (OR a NSAID - never both). It takes time, lots of it. It is so frustrating because I am in the exact same boat as you. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, and second guessing my every move.

Third, always, always give a pepcid 1/2 a regular table 1/2 hour before the Pred. I can't stress how important it is to protect their tummy from the drugs. Some vets forget to tell you this.

The first week we had to support Pixel's back end 100%, he could hardly stand. We are now at day 11 or 12?!? and he can stand on his own, we carry him to his potty place and tell him to go tinkle, he does and we carry him back in, he only takes maybe 10 steps, but they are 10 more steps than he was capable of 12 days ago.

When Pogo went down 2 years ago, he went right down. He was walking when we went to bed and completely paralyzed when we woke up (dragging his back legs). I will never forget that day as long as I live. And please don't forget a surgeon, is always going to tell you to have surgery.

:hang: <---super easy to give this advice a LOT more difficult to take it.

More rayz coming your way. :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz:

[lotsadox]

I am hoping that it works for him. if the neuro says he is a candidate for surgery, though, i may have to go for it just because he is beyond wobbly. That story does give me faith. I wondered though if the chiro would work but didnt think it would because it is usually for dislocated stuff, not busted stuff. Also, did bandit have a slipped disk or was it something different? I know that diagnostic tests are different back then

Unfortunately, I don't qualify for care credit right now and am trying to find out what I need to do to get it and I have been quoted at $7-10k for surgery and related tests. I am going to go to a neuro for a counsult and then if I have to sell my car, etc, that's just what I will have to do. I just hope that there is another way besides surgery, but if there isn't, I will do what I have to do.

Bandit was completely down. I got up in the morning and she couldn't walk. I can't exactly remember about the diagnosis. I was sort of in shock at the time and I didn't know anything about back problems. I think she had some disc problem. I wish I could tell you more.

As Lisa said, surgeon's will always suggest surgery. When I didn't want to do surgery, they basically gave her back to me and said "Good luck". My vet was wonderful though. She worked with us and we got her back walking.

Lisa, I"m glad to hear that Pix is doing better. That's great to hear :cheer3::cheer3:

[HokieMom]

Lots of :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Alex. It just breaks our heart when they are in pain!

My son's beagle/jack/doxie had IVDD surgery in South Carolina and it was around $3K. A great neurosurgeon that graduated from Virginia Tech Veterinary School in Virginia. (The Hokie School)

Mr. Higgins was doing great and has been 'normal' for 3 years since his surgery... however.. he's now having a cervical disc acting up and is on prendisone and tramadol with crate rest right now.

It is just so heart wrenching when they are ill.

[LexieLuvr]

I'm so sorry! I went thru that with Jack, twice. The first time, he recovered 100% with meds, 8 weeks of crate rest, VOM and acupuncture. A year later, he went down completely and had to have surgery. Please check the web site www.dodgerslist.com - it's a terrific web site about IVDD issues, with tons of great information! And do consult a neuro, if you can, or an orthopedic specialist. That's your best bet. Surgery is NOT always necessary, especially if he still has some movement and is not totally down. Please keep us posted. :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

[Lisa]

Focus on his healing, give him the TIME needed to heal (8 weeks), be positive, and know the even worst can be okay. If you are committed to giving him love, support and managing his pain, YOU ARE A GREAT MOMMY!! :hug99: :hug99: :hug99:

[Chris]

I think where I am getting confused is the emphasis that if I don't do something within a short period of time, things will be bad for good and he will never recover. I heard that from someone I spoke to at one ortho/neuro place, at my vet, etc...I just feel like a really bad mommy right now.

I understand dogs have a good life as cart dogs, but I don't want him to be there because I didn't have the money or because I was too slow to react or in denial. That's the part that really hurts me big time. I know - they say you shouldn't have a dog if you aren't prepared. I was prepared, and then junk happened and I have done my best to rebuild. I think I just feel guilty right now.

I am going to see a neuro tomorrow - the same that Laikaweenie saw. I am also looking at seeing a holistic vet but don't know when I can get in.

Al is on Tramadol now, but just had his first dose and can't have one tomorrow morn because they want him on nothing when he goes in. I don't know if I will have computer access before I leave but will keep you posted.

[Chris]

btw, the surgery quote included tests. It wasn't just the surgery.

[Lisa]

Good Luck!! I will be thinking of you both today.

:bighug:

[areese]

Chris, the majority of dogs on Dodger's now are doing conservative treatment. The only time you are under a time restraint is if he loses deep pain. I think you are confused about what that is. It doesn't mean he yelps. It's tested by a toe pinch and it has to be distinguished from a reflex. I'm glad you are seeing Laikaween's dr but they WILL tell you to get surgery. They are surgeons and like to FIX things. Right away. Did you join the dodger's yahoo group and read? Alex is not completely down, he has bladder and bowel control (right? he goes out to potty??) and he isn't regressing (just not progressing fast) That's how it goes with the crate rest and med treatment. It takes time. If you haven't joined the dodger's group you should do that...AND you can tell them what you've told us and get more responses.
I AM very glad I got surgery for Laika but there are no guarantees with surgery either. They did give her a 90% chance of a good recovery but there have been some that haven't done as well. Laika's surgery and tests there were 6,000.

[Lisa]

:ditto: to everything Amy said.

That doesn't mean we want you to stop posting here. :) We can totally offer moral support, but Dodger's has so much information on conservative treatment, and hope. You can go through the archives and see success after success.

[lotsadox]

:ditto: to everything Amy said.

That doesn't mean we want you to stop posting here. :) We can totally offer moral support, but Dodger's has so much information on conservative treatment, and hope. You can go through the archives and see success after success.

:ditto::ditto: We definitely want to hear from you and know what's going on with you and Alex. We aren't as knowledgeable and the DL people, but we can offer our experience, strength, hope and moral support :hug99::hug99:

[Alex's Mom]

Chris, not much more to add ...it's been 20 years since I last dealt with a back dog; treatment options back then, esp in this neck of the woods, were very limited. My Maxe had the same symptoms you describe, and I also dealt with it through crate rest and pred. She had back issues from the age of 6 until she crossed at 15, but fortunately I never had to deal with surgery. It's definitely a day by day thing, and the progress is painfully slow. Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and Alex (I have a soft spot for any dog named Alex :)) and sending tons and tons and tons of :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:. Please keep us posted, ok?? :hug99::hug99::hug99:

[Chris]

Chris, the majority of dogs on Dodger's now are doing conservative treatment. The only time you are under a time restraint is if he loses deep pain. I think you are confused about what that is. It doesn't mean he yelps. It's tested by a toe pinch and it has to be distinguished from a reflex. I'm glad you are seeing Laikaween's dr but they WILL tell you to get surgery. They are surgeons and like to FIX things. Right away. Did you join the dodger's yahoo group and read? Alex is not completely down, he has bladder and bowel control (right? he goes out to potty??) and he isn't regressing (just not progressing fast) That's how it goes with the crate rest and med treatment. It takes time. If you haven't joined the dodger's group you should do that...AND you can tell them what you've told us and get more responses.
I AM very glad I got surgery for Laika but there are no guarantees with surgery either. They did give her a 90% chance of a good recovery but there have been some that haven't done as well. Laika's surgery and tests there were 6,000.

I don't have the paper with me, but basically, he doesn't feel al has much function in his legs. He responds to pain and has reflexes but I really shuddered when I saw the term "paraplegic" listed. He gave the doc the business when he pinched his tail, etc. The doctor says to give Al 2 more weeks of pred/tram/crate rest and we'll see how he is doing and then it may be surgery or cart - but of course I will continue the crate rest if its not surgery.

The $10k quote was me adding in the $3k MRI to the 6K approx. surgery.

I will not be home to really get into the list until monday as computer time is limited at the moment. I will keep you updated.

I was so frustrated tonight that I couldn't get him to go potty, but he had a stressful day with no food in the am right away so I am cutting him some slack and hope he just didn't have to go, as he went like a champ this morning.

[Lisa]

Sending lots more rayz. :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz:

Maybe start a journal? First it will help you see his improvements (I can tell you, there is nothing remarkable day to day, it is very slow), but they are there. Also it will really help others going forward. I wish I had a timeline for healing, but it doesn't exist. It is just very minor improvements, you notice the pain starts to minimize a bit, they get week, but then they get stronger, the big one is when you can go from a sling only supporting the back end, to having to harness and sling because they want to boot away from you. Also the tail will start to wag and go a bit higher when peeing. We are not at the leg lift yet, but I think we are really close. None of these happen at once, nor do they happen quick enough, but I have every confidence you will see them in time. :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz:

[lotsadox]

Lisa's right. The improvements are sometimes to incremental that it's hard to see them. It will be little things like the tail wag and carrying the tail higher and eventually scratching with a back leg. I remember being so happy when Bogart scratched himself with his back leg one night. A journal is a great idea. It would make it easier to see the improvement and would be a great help to the rest of us when we go thru it.

Sending :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: and :hug99::hug99::hug99:

[areese]

And with Pixel, just being able to reduce his steroid dose without a relapse is really good progress and means he's healing.
I wouldn't consider a wheelchair until the full 8 weeks are up.
I think a friend not too far from you gets accupuncture on her dog. it IS from a chiro and I would NOT do any adjustments on Alex but accupuncture can be very good. If you are interested let me know and I'll find out who it is. her dog goes regularly cuz she is 10 and runs hard in agility and Becky just likes to keep her in top form.

[areese]

You can add a little (tsp) of plain canned pumpkin if he is getting constipated..the tramadol can do that but if he's going on his own once a day or so that should be ok.
The quote I got included the MRI with the surgery costs cuz they don't do surgery without knowing what is going on in there first. She had a 5 day stay as it took her quite a while to regain bladder function...her spinal cord had been very compressed so it took awhile to come back. So it was a tad over 6 total, including the emergency fees as she came in on a Sunday night after seeing an ER vet.


I don't have the paper with me, but basically, he doesn't feel al has much function in his legs. He responds to pain and has reflexes but I really shuddered when I saw the term "paraplegic" listed. He gave the doc the business when he pinched his tail, etc. The doctor says to give Al 2 more weeks of pred/tram/crate rest and we'll see how he is doing and then it may be surgery or cart - but of course I will continue the crate rest if its not surgery.

The $10k quote was me adding in the $3k MRI to the 6K approx. surgery.

I will not be home to really get into the list until monday as computer time is limited at the moment. I will keep you updated.

I was so frustrated tonight that I couldn't get him to go potty, but he had a stressful day with no food in the am right away so I am cutting him some slack and hope he just didn't have to go, as he went like a champ this morning.

[Lisa]

Also, since Alex gave the doctor a what for after doing the deep pain test, that is AWESOME! I know it doesn't seem like it was a good thing, but it truly was, that means the signals are making it to the tip of his tail and the base of his feet.

[lotsadox]

Also, since Alex gave the doctor a what for after doing the deep pain test, that is AWESOME! I know it doesn't seem like it was a good thing, but it truly was, that means the signals are making it to the tip of his tail and the base of his feet.

It was a very good thing :) Means he still has feelings and the nerves are transmitting from his back end. Very good.

It took Bogart 10 weeks of crate rest to come back all the way. He was 15 years old, but made a complete recovery. He could even run. My vet was amazed. She said she had 15 year old dogs that hadn't had back problems that couldn't run! I also wouldn't worry about the cart until the crate rest. I think it sounds like he could do well on crate rest and meds.

Edit: Both of mine that recovered with crate rest had chiro during that time. My vet does VOM which is veterinary chiro. Yo has also had good luck with VOM on back problems. I'd also look into the laser treatments. They sound really promising.

[Chris]

Yesterday, he didn't go #1 all day and I was so upset but I think it was because he was stressed. Today he went a river outside when it was potty time and it made me very happy. I am so silly -- who would have thought I would cry over a dog going pee. He was okay today. But one question - occasionally, he protests for a moment when I go to pick him up to take him out but once in my arms, he is quiet and happy. Tonight he really bared his teeth and snarled and snapped. I am torn between placing a rolled towel around his neck so he can't turn around and grab me and picking him up with thick gloves and saying to myself "that means back off" and not taking him out. Obviously, he has pain but obviously he needs to potty. Normally I would heed a dog's warnings but in his case, am wondering if overriding it is not something I should do or not. I want to heed his "no" but on the other hand, he is not allowed to boss me and he can't hold out all day because he is cranky and hurting.

I would sat today willing potty breaks versus snarly is 50-50

[Lisa]

You might need a muzzle, I would highly recommend a basket type, plastic...but anything will be okay. I actually put one on Pixel the first few days, just to protect me and thus protect him. If I am not worried about getting bitten, I can focus more on the task at hand. You really only need it for a bit, we do not use one now, even when we pick him up. I know the tramadol is supposed to work quick, but it seems to take a few days to kick in. Also the Pred needs about a week to shrink the inflammation.

If you don't want to go that route, you need to wear something heavy to protect yourself. Like denim or leather. He is going to be snappy. He is pain.

Glad he is peeing. The Pred will make him drink more, we are filling up Pixel's water in his crate 4 or 5 times a day. And because it is going in, it will also come out more too.

More rays!
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

[lotsadox]

It could also be that he's afraid of the pain having felt it before when he was picked up. It may take him a while to realize that it's not going to hurt now. Definitely use a muzzle if you need to. Sometimes it does nothing more than distract them so that they realize what you're doing and get stressed. Whatever works. It won't hurt him.

Sending :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

[LexieLuvr]

Poor guy! More :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:!!

[Rae]

Chris: is he snarly and snappy when you get ready to take him out of the crate or when you actually start to do so?

I ask because when Duchie was on crate rest, it was really hard to get her out of the crate without hurting her, and the snapping is a natural reaction to pain.

[Chris]

Chris: is he snarly and snappy when you get ready to take him out of the crate or when you actually start to do so?

I ask because when Duchie was on crate rest, it was really hard to get her out of the crate without hurting her, and the snapping is a natural reaction to pain.

He snarls once he sees the gloves. I can pet him, etc, and he is very sweet but once he sees the gloves I used to pick him up, Cujo comes out. We actually had a good day today. yesterday was so horrible and last night was sleepless but today he was happy and pleasant and even somehow broke out of his cage (i don't know how) and scooted into the kitchen while I was gone for an hour. He pried the door open to the point that it was slanted and hanging by the bottom (it is a plastic crate he is in and I take the top half off to help him out or so he can see what is going on in the room). needless to say, we changed crates. And there he was...waiting to be served with water and food. Don't ask me how he did it.

He was a little bit snarly later in the day but I think the warmer weather today helped his mood greatly. I just hope we can have another good day in a row, because yesterday there was a lot of tears (from mommy) because he was in so much pain.

Also, he seems to want to lay to one side or sit leaning on one side. I keep trying to straighten him out so he is even on both legs, or should I just let him be twisted or leaned if he really seems to want to be? I just don't want him to heal 'crooked' esp since one leg has always had a better response than the other but it has always been

[Lisa]

Chris if you read my threads about Pixel, they really do run parallel to yours. So many tears, so much anxiety, so much sleeplessness.

You are NOT alone through this. Although it is only virtual, I do know exactly how you feel. You are doing an amazing job with him, and it sounds like the Pred is kicking in. :bighug:

Pixel sleeps in a tight little ball. I don't know how that is good for his back, but the important thing is he is resting and healing.

Too bad we can just knock them out for 8 weeks, and pop them into a healing chamber ((sigh)) this is so tough.

[areese]

He really should not be in pain. if he is, he needs more or different meds. I'm really worried about that. Some dogs need a muscle relaxer or gabepentin also to control pain. he will heal faster if his pain is controlled.
Let him sit/lay however he wants. You can work on evening up the muscles after he is healed. he won't heal crooked because of how he sits. One side is always more affected but you can do PT with him once he's up and walking. and it's amazing how fast muscles come back!!! really!
Now, has he ever liked to be picked up? I know he tends to be a bit snarly at the best of times once in a while....
Can you carry his crate to the door and let him walk out?
sending many more :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for you both.

[lotsadox]

The fact that he's still in pain concerns me, too. Neither of mine were in pain once the meds kicked in. Maybe the good day was because the Pred has taken hold like Lisa said. I hope so.

I'd let him sit/lay however he wants and I agree, if you can't lift him in or out of the crate without hurting him or making him anxiious, let him walk out. Bogart was fine about being picked up once he was out of the crate, but evidently when I picked him up out of the crate once it hurt and he didn't like me lifting him in or out of the crate. I let him walk out and then would pick him up and he was fine with that. I just made sure that I had the leash fastened to him harness so he couldn't get away from me and do too much. That few steps is better than causing them pain or anxiety.

[Chris]

He really should not be in pain. if he is, he needs more or different meds. I'm really worried about that. Some dogs need a muscle relaxer or gabepentin also to control pain. he will heal faster if his pain is controlled.
Let him sit/lay however he wants. You can work on evening up the muscles after he is healed. he won't heal crooked because of how he sits. One side is always more affected but you can do PT with him once he's up and walking. and it's amazing how fast muscles come back!!! really!
Now, has he ever liked to be picked up? I know he tends to be a bit snarly at the best of times once in a while....
Can you carry his crate to the door and let him walk out?
sending many more :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for you both.

he does like to be picked up by me unless the rare incident that he is resource guarding meat, and I try to manage that by not having him under foot when it is around, etc, but I have noticed since the stress level in the household is no longer high, that has mellowed out a bit too. But we still work on that.

Last night was a bit better. He panted for a short bit but wasn't crying at night. Today I put his crate outside and he did walk out and I had to go catch him to slow him down! I would say he set off at a quick pace for about 5 feet before I could grab him. I blocked him with my hand and he just tried to turn around or do the "i am going to plow through this obstacle like a Tonka truck" thing but I wouldn't let him. He went potty (both), which was great. kinda hard to tell so low to the ground and with the snow melted but I could hear him peeing and also checked his boyparts for dampness.

Once he was safely back in the crate, he was achy and didn't want any part of anybody and growly barked for a few minutes.

This afternoon, I expected that he wouldn't want to potty for hours and hours like the rest of the days (i was very lucky to have one really good potty time and one maybe half baked time), but he had an accident in his crate before I could get him out, which is rare. He is normally the type that would be stubborn (like during a hurricane he held it so long I thought he would be sick). He tried to break out because I think he wanted to get away from it and he just yelped and cried. We did take him out right away after that and he did get out of his crate on his own but didn't do a lot.

It seems that when he is ready to go potty he is happy but then sort of "pays" for it for a little while and is hurting for a bit.

I will talk to Alex's regular vet tomorrow and ask her about the other med. I have never heard about that one before.

Oh, and I am going to leash Alex from now on now that he is trying to break for it. It is odd, in the morning he wants to make a break for it and its like he somehow pays for it the rest of the day.

[Lisa]

Pixel is always strong in the morning, but by mid day is his low point. Then at night he seems stronger. You need to support his back end if at all possible. A scarf, a tensor bandage something. Carrying out the crate seems like a really smart idea!!!!

The Pred will make him pee WAY more. It is actually a good sign, means it is kicking in. Pixel has to pee every 3 - 4 hours, but pretty much we can take him out every hour and he will do something. He will also drink a lot more. Pixel drinks a ramekin of water every couple of hours.

[areese]

I
Oh, and I am going to leash Alex from now on now that he is trying to break for it. It is odd, in the morning he wants to make a break for it and its like he somehow pays for it the rest of the day.

It would be a good thing to have a harness on him to prevent escapes! and you also should be using a sling to support his rear. it takes a bit of doing to handle both leash and sling but it's not too hard. laika initially just needed the sling and would not run out of it but after awhile needed both, then just the harness. You need to stabilize his back as much as possible by using a sling, which can me just a length of materia, a scarf, an elastic bandage,etc. Then he can use his legs some but not have to support his weight and prevents him from collapsing and moving his back around too much.
Which dr did you see at the Animal MRI and Neurology center?
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigr ayz: still on the way.

[Chris]

I was using a very thick belt. I will be home tomorrow so I am going to look through my scarves to see what I have. Do you need to put it around his legs? Like wrap it around each one to hold him like its pants? or put a strap just behind his boy parts? Or right under his belly?

We saw Dr Galle

[areese]

I'll let Lisa answer the sling question cuz I never used one on a boy :)
Dr. Galle was our surgeon. Laika adored him. it was one thing that really impressed me...when I finally got to visit her she was sooooo excited but when he came and talked to us and carried her back, she went willingly into his arms and kissed him!!

[Lisa]

Nope, you don't have to wrap it at all, this is how we do it. Pogo modeled for us.

You always want to use a harness and leash to control their speed from the front end, and a sling (tensor, scarf) to support the back legs. The goal is to stop them from running and keeping their back flat and not let them lose support. Rafi keeps the tensor tight for the first week or two (as shown) and then loosen it as time goes on and they gain strength, but he always keeps the sling under, in case they slip the tensor is there for him to keep back support there.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5208/5318727884_fbb3c09223_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5281/5318129123_81642fa56d_b.jpg

[Rafi]

You just want a bit of tension, not so much that you are almost lifting them off the ground, but not loose enough that you are not supporting them.

Just as they start to pee, you want to loosen the bandage a little, so you are not obstructing the peener.

You will know when you have it right, just by the feel of the tensor bandage, and their mobility.

[Lisa]

Chris, how is Alex doing?

[LexieLuvr]

Because of Jack's physical build, the tension bandage did not work -- I had to "build" back leg holders (out of two leashes) to keep Jack's back feet off the ground when he went out to pee or whatever. Hope your furboy is doing better!!! :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

[Chris]

Yeah - the strap is hard for al. I have a soft rayon scarf i pushed under his belly, but he doesn't have enough room or any room between his boy parts and his legs like the handsome Pogo does so we do the best we can.

Fortunately, Al has his personality back and is in a ton less pain, thanks to the Tramadol. And oddly enough he'll take his meds right out of my hand without disguising them. The "lets growl and snap at mommy all the time" has stopped, THANK GOD. He is 100% more cooperative However, these crying jags at night because he can't be on the bed and the periods of general antsiness are breaking my heart. Well, really I was major sleep deprived. A couple nights ago I wondered how I was going to get through it. I was getting awfully snappy myself. In fact, I could definitely use the sleep.

He went from dragging his legs at his worst to now being able to stand and when he goes potty he can take steps albeit slightly wobbly. So thats an improvement or at least a "back to where this all started."

I tried to taper his tramadol but he went from strong to tangling his legs again a little so when he goes back to the vet, after she sees his change since the beginning, we'll try the process over.

Ever get the feeling - oh I wish this would be over - either cart or totally better but I want to know now and fast forward this to a few weeks later but of course hat is not possibly. It is just a lesson in extreme patience.

Oh, and he is going potty COOPERATIVELY 3 x a day where in the beginning I was lucky to get one or a crate accident. That makes me relieved - he can definitey use his potty organs.

[Lisa]

The fact he went from dragging his legs to standing on his own is AMAZING. That really is phenomenal progress!! Also no pain is a wonderful update too. I totally understanding being sleep deprived. I am so cranky all the time. I actually played hookie from work today, so I could sleep, it's not like I was being productive there anyway since I spent the entire day thinking about sleep, wondering if there was somewhere I could nap and if I was making stupid mistakes because I was so tired.

I bought the thinnest tensor bandage you can from Walmart (I think it was $4), just so there was no peenie interference :)

More rayz for Alex! :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz:

[LexieLuvr]

Sounds like GREAT progress!! Yes, I went through the stages of wishing it was all over with, but I'm so glad I just dug deep into my patience reserve and hung on until Jack was better. I was fortunate, in one aspect, in that I'm unemployed so I could stay home with him and really take good care of him. I don't know what I'd have done if I'd been working and he had to have surgery. Things always seem to work out for the best. Hang in there!!! And more recovery :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

[Chris]

well, i work from home so that's a bonus, but I'll have to leave Alex tomorrow for quite a few hours at night. But I think he'll be fine. Under normal circumstances, it would be a reasonable time to leave him and Ollie home by themselves, but under these circumstances, I have all sorts of maternal guilt because I haven't been away from him for more than 2 hours at a time since this all went down.

He didn't have the best day today. I forgot to give him his last dose of medicine last night and when he woke up he was tangled and growly and just not happy. I felt really bad, but on the other hand I guess I didn't expect he would be so bad with just one missing dose figuring enough would be in his system, so to speak. I definitely didn't mean it and won't do it again. He started to feel a lot better as the day progressed but either because of that or the weather he was just a bit more tangled than he had been.

Now he is sleeping very comfortable and has started to sleep on his side again (not really on his belly but sort of his side, but the content doggy feet stretched out laying on his full side), so that's a good thing.

I am just really sort of wanting to just pick him up and hold him in my lap but can' do that now. It's really tough, but those who have been through it know that. I have compromised and sometimes have him in a plastic crate with the top screwed off and sit next to him with my hands/arms in there craddling his head and petting him and he likes that very much. He is not on a wobbly lap but still gets his ears scratched.

[Frankie'sMom]

I am late in seeing this but I wanted to add some :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for a quick recovery for Alex. I can only imagine how hard this is for you to see him in pain. :hug99:

[HokieMom]

Just thinking of Alex and hope he's feeling better. I'm sure a few extra :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: won't hurt!