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Ivan
11-16-2011, 03:21 PM
Buddy is now at the vet, getting an x-ray this afternoon (sedated). He'll return home this evening.

Last week, instead of his usual exuberance (ie, zoomies), suddenly he became slow, lethargic. He had a few odd weird days like that before. OK, we all do. But last week, he whined while bending his head down to pick up the treat he dropped (while sitting). That's new. Dunno why? What happened? Predisone (5mg/day) for 2 days fixed that splendidly. Normal again.

Today, he cried while lowering his head to inhale brekkie, and he STOPPED EATING, took some steps and then SLOWLY finished!!! Then he sat & shivered. That ain't right. So back to the vet we go! Buddy whined when the vet gently bent his neck sideways, but no reaction (whew!) to poking along his entire back. Vet suspects a pinched nerve in neck? Vet suggested an x-ray just to peek inside for clues. Future MRI only if it gets worse. Either way, higher prednisone (10+ mg/day) for a while, declining dose to reduce inflammation. Poor sweetie.

Lisa
11-16-2011, 03:28 PM
Poor little guy. Back injuries are super duper painful, and rumor has it neck ones are even more so. Buddy might need a muscle relaxer along with the pred.

I am sure you are already doing it (just a reminder for any newbies). A stomach protector - like pepcid 1/2 hour before the pred.

If the neck is anything like the back it takes a looooong time heal. Lots and lots of rayz for Buddy. Keep us posted to what the vet says!

:bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz: :bigrayz:

Tex
11-16-2011, 04:27 PM
So sorry that Buddy is having neck issues! Super glad though that it doesn't seem to be a back issue. Sending fast healing :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Buddy!!!!

Yolanda
11-16-2011, 05:22 PM
poor BIG guy, be a good boy and take our meds. Make sure to elevate his water and foods bowls. too. many many :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

oceangirls
11-16-2011, 08:29 PM
Rayz for Buddy! :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: Please keep us updated.

LexieLuvr
11-16-2011, 08:58 PM
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: I hope the x-rays show something; usually they don't give you much information.:crossfin::crossfin:

lotsadox
11-16-2011, 09:34 PM
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: I hope the x-rays show something; usually they don't give you much information.:crossfin::crossfin:

:ditto: They can show some things, but not a lot.

Ivan
11-16-2011, 09:54 PM
The good news is Buddy does not have IVDD. Whew, whew, whew!!!! Discs along his back look awesome, and way better than mine. But his neck is a different story. He has obvious calcification and dislocation at C4-5, and has calcification at C5-6 and C6-7. Vet says they are old injuries. Coincidentally, just in the area where a collar would lie. Buddy probably got jerked around by his collar, by his former owner, is what I think.

Buddy is on a course of prednisolone which will calm the inflammation and stop the pain. Vet thinks that this will be a life-long chronic problem, albeit manageable with meds when flare-ups occur. However, if things get really bad, surgery can be performed: an intravertebral fenestration, which is basically pulling out the calcified discs. Without the discs, the vertebrae will end up fusing on their own. It would end up limiting the movement in his neck but surgery would get rid of the pain permanently. At this point, however, surgery is not recommended. Buddy sure was happy to get home. I got lotsa kisses.

areese
11-16-2011, 10:10 PM
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Buddy!!!
Just FYI-
IVDD can not be diagnosed by an x-ray.
Calcifications don't indicate disc problems, actually. Discs that herniate are most often those that aren't calcified.
you might want to get on the dodger's list site and read up on cervical and back issues. Cervical problems are often more painful and take longer to heal, from what I remember reading.
Laika had a laminectomy with fenestration on her last thoractic/first lumbar vertebrae three years ago. Removal of that disc material and then fenestration of the adjoining ones to prevent further problems.
http://www.dodgerslist.com/
Did he recommend crate rest? Also, a friend of mine's dog had chronic cervical issues (like Buddy-due to injury) and I made her a cervical collar of sorts..very soft and stuffed and hooked with velcro around the neck. it stabilized her neck and she really liked it..she had been having pain when her head was down, making it uncomfortable to sleep. If you think you need or want anything like that, let me know and I'll make one for you (well..for Buddy :))

stampendoxie
11-16-2011, 11:00 PM
My Chester has had neck pain issues off and on since he was 3 or 4 years old. Chester is now 16 years old. I have never used collars on any of my doxies so that was not the cause; but Chester did love to jump when he was young. We have used prednisone and relafen (muscle relaxant) when he would have a flare...usually during cold weather by the way. Good luck with Buddy.

Ivan
11-17-2011, 03:00 AM
Vet said xrays were just to rule out other things & to look for anything obvious. No other issues were found, except for the obvious mid-neck dislocation that happens to be right around what seems to be the pain site, and is consistent with Buddy's crying behavior. Probably no coincidence that it hurts exactly where the bones go noticeably askew? Vet said it's still just an educated guess that his pain comes from there, whether or not herniation is present. Either way, treatment is prednisone, not surgery. Fenestration would be a long way off, if ever, and only if pain got worse. Right now, prednisone works. We asked about crate rest, and vet seemed ambivalent about it, and about pepsid. Said no harm it it, though. Quite unlike dodgerslist, where we did some reading (lotsa great info).

What's reassuring is that Buddy withstood so much poking, prodding, pressing, compressing, bending, massaging, and so on, along his back, with no response. Good! His back seems strong & pain free.

Agreed that you can't see soft tissue, bleeding, fissures, or herniation in xrays. We learned from my own herniations that it needs MRI. Still, I wish my own vertebrae looked like Buddy's. It's reassuring that discs in Buddy's back look so nice, wide, parallel, even, dark, normal, and all alike. Very different than his neck. His neck looks like an old man's (eg, mine). Flexing just his neck alone made him wince and cry in pain. Buddy's neck dislocation was the vet's concern. Calcification was largely mine. He gave no estimate for time to heal.

Amy, I think a cervical collar would be awesome! Yes! I think it would help healing, and lessen neck movements while the pills are masking his pain and also after the 2 week pills are finished. Is it hard to make? We would GREATLY appreciate it.

I hope Buddy's neck can heal, to pain free. Flare-ups seem manageable. He's snoozing beside me, right now.

Stampendoxie, I read that prednisone and NSAIDs should not be given at once, but I'll bet Chester (frosty face?) already knows that.

Yo, good idea about the raised bowls.

Everyone, thanks for all the wishes and the :bigrayz:.

RustysMom
11-17-2011, 09:39 AM
many :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Buddy! :hug99:

areese
11-17-2011, 09:47 AM
it would be easy to make...it's just like a stuffed donut with velcro :) just measure around his neck for me and perhaps give me a rough estimate about the width and send me your address and I'll get right on it.
My friend who had me make it is (was :( she passed away last year) a nurse and it seems like such a common sense thing and I mentioned it when I was on dodger's a lot but no one seemed interested.
I wasn't saying Buddy needs surgery, BTW. But be cautious about his movements and keep a close eye on him neurologically. I would think, given the predisposition for the prematurely aging disc, and given he has vertebrae that are damaged/out of place, he would be a prime candidate for a rupture.
I will say that Laika, with a 75% occlusion of her spinal cord, stood there and was poked and prodded without a whine or wimper or wince. Insane.
So be careful about the couch etc. Since he feels better on meds, you don't want him jumping or jerking around with quick movements.
Has he ever seen a neurologist?
PM or post me the measurments and address and I'll get it in the mail tomorrow. :)
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

Alex's Mom
11-17-2011, 09:47 AM
Nothing to add, except that the pepcid before the pred is a very good idea, from someone who has 2 dogs on it. Tons of :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Buddy and :hug99::hug99::hug99: for his worried parents!

lotsadox
11-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Also, remember the neck is part of the spinal column. A neck misalignment can lead to back problems. If the spine is out of alignment in one part, that will lead to other misalignments as the body tries to compensate.

Amy, I found that Dodger's List people are very resistant to new ideas. When I used the stroller for Bogart, I posted about it because I hadn't seen anything about using a stroller. No one seemed interested at all. I haven't been over there in a while, but I understand that now they are recommending it. I guess one of their regular long term members has to use it for them to see the value. They're sort of rigid.

areese
11-17-2011, 10:40 AM
Oh yeah, they are BIG on strollers now.
to me, using a soft comfortable brace to support a neck is a no-brainer and could do no harm but yes...they are rigid there. And I do understand..they are a lot of people's main resource and don't want to recommend something that isn't proven to be beneficial but geez..

Ivan
11-17-2011, 12:21 PM
My Chester has had neck pain issues... We have used prednisone and relafen (muscle relaxant) when he would have a flare...usually during cold weather by the way.

How often do Chester's flare-ups occur? Monthly? Yearly? Then how much meds and for how long? So, it simply happens, just from tense muscles?

lotsadox
11-17-2011, 12:27 PM
Oh yeah, they are BIG on strollers now.
to me, using a soft comfortable brace to support a neck is a no-brainer and could do no harm but yes...they are rigid there. And I do understand..they are a lot of people's main resource and don't want to recommend something that isn't proven to be beneficial but geez..

I think the neck brace is a great idea. It would help the discomfort and help prevent them for hurting themselves again. But, yeah, I understand why they don't want to recommend things they dont' know about, but some things seem to be a no brainer to me.

Ivan
11-17-2011, 12:41 PM
be cautious about his movements and keep a close eye on him neurologically. I would think, given the predisposition for the prematurely aging disc, and given he has vertebrae that are damaged/out of place, he would be a prime candidate for a rupture.
I will say that Laika, with a 75% occlusion of her spinal cord, stood there and was poked and prodded without a whine or wimper or wince. Insane.
So be careful about the couch etc. Since he feels better on meds, you don't want him jumping or jerking around with quick movements.
Has he ever seen a neurologist?
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:


I think the neck brace is a great idea. Oh yeah, today Mr. Steroids thinks he's SUPERDOG, zooming around the yard. Yikes! So the leash came out. I guess he was SO happy to be pain free? He's in his crate now. We will watch him closely, and worry. Herniation can still happen, or get worse.
No neurologist, yet. We'll see what the meds do.

Laika is a wonderdoggie. She's stoic, survived surgery, and now does agility? You must give them powerful inspirational speeches.

areese
11-17-2011, 01:27 PM
I think the neck brace is a great idea. Oh yeah, today Mr. Steroids thinks he's SUPERDOG, zooming around the yard. Yikes! So the leash came out. I guess he was SO happy to be pain free? He's in his crate now. We will watch him closely, and worry. Herniation can still happen, or get worse.
No neurologist, yet. We'll see what the meds do.

Laika is a wonderdoggie. She's stoic, survived surgery, and now does agility? You must give them powerful inspirational speeches.

I'm sure dodger's would ban me for life if I said I was doing agility with Laika. But unless I gave it up totally, she has to do it. I can't leave her at home and she was sooooo freaking unhappy being at trials and not running. I started running her on level 1 courses without bars (cuz CPE agility people are sooo awesome and would let me, after the trial). Then entered her as a specialist on 4 inch jumps which aren't a jump for her anyway..she's a small standard or "tweenie" as people call them. She is obviously sooo fine and loves it so much she gets to do two runs a day. She is not a crazy dog that would run too fast and not be careful so I really don't have worries now..if she didn't seem right I wouldn't run her but she actually runs better now. AND because she didn't get to do it for so long, she wants to do it more LOL. That's Laika..wants what she can't have, always. Would rather steal treats than have them handed to her.
She just had a bath and went CRAZY trying to play with Segue..he was up for it but she escalated her growling and insanity until he ran to me and begged me to save him. Poor Laika. Misunderstood again.
Here's her first run after surgery. I think 6 months after?? It's me running a friend's dog in snooker first..don't know how to edit video but Laika is after.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ymLsllIkM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Ivan
11-17-2011, 03:06 PM
That video was taken only 4 months later? Wow, they heal fast. She was running pretty hard, which seems kinda jolting to the spine, even if the jumps were so low. But she knows her abilities. Good that she healed so well.

Hmm, now I see the embodiment of your powerful inspirational speeches. They look suspiciously like sliced ham. Lots of ham. That would work on me too.

Yolanda
11-17-2011, 03:14 PM
My very first doxie Tina, had neck surgery twice and her vet made here a neck brace and we then wrapped in it Pink fabric.

I really do believe in them for neck injuries, just not too tight.

areese
11-17-2011, 03:41 PM
That video was taken only 4 months later? Wow, they heal fast. She was running pretty hard, which seems kinda jolting to the spine, even if the jumps were so low. But she knows her abilities. Good that she healed so well.

Hmm, now I see the embodiment of your powerful inspirational speeches. They look suspiciously like sliced ham. Lots of ham. That would work on me too.

6 months after. And it was turkey :)
I really thought she'd be fine at the trials without competing..fine with treats and attention and walks and maybe running around the practice jump but she was not. I know she was excited about the turkey but she was really really really happy to run. Running won't hurt them..I surely can't keep her from running..on walks, in the yard..she's an active girl. Always has been.
Now if we hadn't had the surgery and opted for conservative treatment..I think I'd be more afraid because the problem wouldn't have been fixed. her herniation was at the most common spot (end of thoractic, beginning of lumbar, it being the most flexible part of the spine) and it was repaired and the adjoining discs fenestrated so they can not rupture. And honestly..I believe if they are going to go they are going to go..even if you could keep your dog in a giant hamster ball or whatever it would take to keep them safe. Lisa's Pogo never jumped or used stairs...his herniation happened in bed if I'm remembering right.
so opted for making my dog happy. and me. cuz I really didn't want to give up agility. it's the one thing I do that makes me happy.

LexieLuvr
11-18-2011, 09:00 PM
Adding my :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Buddy!!

Kasianni
11-18-2011, 10:49 PM
:bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Buddy!!!
Just FYI-
IVDD can not be diagnosed by an x-ray.
Calcifications don't indicate disc problems, actually. Discs that herniate are most often those that aren't calcified.


Well I just learned something. My vet found Theo's one calcification from an x-ray. Took one to make Theo's cough last spring was nothing serious. Told me he could go down but as you said usually does not happen where the calcification's are. I thought having calcification's also meant IVDD?!? I do need to read up on it as well.
Lisa- I was reading a post about you giving your pups vitamin E. (The low dose of 100)Is it safe for them? How does it help them?

areese
11-19-2011, 05:41 AM
I think calcifications DO indicate IVDD. Just don't mean there's going to be a herniation at those discs. From what I read...the majority of dachshunds have IVDD. it's not some strange abberation or a simple genetic issue. It is tied in with being a dwarf breed-the same genes that make them so cute and short legged create prematurely aging discs. However the disc that are calified are not ones that generally give the trouble. Not saying never of course.
But I bet most of our dachshunds would have calcifications somewhere if they were x-rayed....me, I don't want to know LOL. Laika's neurologist said the rest of her spine looked good but of course we know she has IVDD. he said a recurrence is unlikely.

Alex's Mom
11-19-2011, 07:22 AM
Every dachsie I've had had calcified discs at some point, including the current three, but Maxe was the only one who actually went down. ITA with Amy...it goes with the breed. That pesky dwarf gene is indeed largely at fault, and I see the ramifications of it esp in Jules, who is a true mini. It affects their jaws and teeth, and in her case, her leg joints. There is a price to pay for messing with Mother Nature, always. Still, they ARE cute :rolleyes:.

lotsadox
11-19-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm betting that most of mine have had some calcification. The ones that have had to have xrays for anything have all had some calcification. Some had problems with their backs and some didn't. I felt lucky that 2 of my 3 that have had back problems have not had anything manifest until they were 13 or older.

Ivan
11-22-2011, 12:44 AM
Look who was waiting for me with 'welcome home' kisses, tonight, dressed in high fashion.

Huge thanks, Amy! It's perfect! It's just the right size, and he's good with wearing it, so it'll keep his neck safe & sound while it heals. All vets should have this magic. I like how supportive it is, allowing him to nicely rest his head while snoozing. We appreciate it VERY VERY much.


:thankyou: :thankyou::thankyou:


http://i.imgur.com/66Lmmh.jpg
http://imgur.com/a/z2w5G

http://i.imgur.com/lezQvh.jpg

Lisa
11-22-2011, 08:34 AM
That is beyond awesome! And Buddy is stunning. :love98: :love98: :love98:

areese
11-22-2011, 09:19 AM
SOOOO glad it fits :) :) :) Gosh he's beautiful!!!!!!!! I really really hope it helps make him more comfortable and also stabilizes his neck!!!!!

Yolanda
11-22-2011, 11:04 AM
Oh thanks for sharing the pictures. He is such a magnificent looking boy.

The tong picture is awesome and needs to be in a calendar.

Tex
11-22-2011, 08:21 PM
That is a great idea to support his neck. And of course, he looks very dashing modeling for us :)

LexieLuvr
11-22-2011, 08:36 PM
That is beyond awesome! And Buddy is stunning. :love98: :love98: :love98:
Couldn't have said it better!!!

Opaleyz
11-22-2011, 11:39 PM
he is such a dapper dude :cutiepie2

continued :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

lotsadox
11-23-2011, 12:41 AM
That's a great neck support! Good job, Amy.

Sending more :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

areese
11-23-2011, 09:05 AM
That's a great neck support! Good job, Amy.

Sending more :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

it's very soft..it's flannel and stuffed very lightly so it should be very comfortable and not bother the dog. I made something similar here for Smeagle..he was licking a spot on his naked AZZ and making it red and sore...made a quick stuffed thingy to go around his neck and he couldn't reach his butt anymore and wasn't traumatized by it either :)

lotsadox
11-23-2011, 11:16 AM
I"m going to remember that if I ever have a problem with licking. I hate cones. The dogs hate cones. This would probably work just as well in some cases. Thanks for the idea!

areese
11-23-2011, 11:53 AM
Initially I just grabbed a long sock, stuffed it, and pinned it around his neck cuz it was late and I didn't want him licking it all night. Now granted, he is not the brightest bulb on the string but it was bulky enough for him not to be able to reach his azz.

stampendoxie
11-23-2011, 12:29 PM
Buddy is so handsome! The brace looks good...

Yolanda
11-23-2011, 12:33 PM
Initially I just grabbed a long sock, stuffed it, and pinned it around his neck cuz it was late and I didn't want him licking it all night. Now granted, he is not the brightest bulb on the string but it was bulky enough for him not to be able to reach his azz.

:rotfl::rotfl:thanks for the laugh today I really needed it.