Devastated

[Kasianni]

I feel really ill right now. I just moved last week into the condo. Its been a rough week for myself and the dogs. It was very hard on them but they seem to be getting use to their new home.
Theo, just had a seizure at 7pm. His last one was 3 months ago. Since December 20th, he has had 3. Vet says he will only medicate when they are more than one a month. Its really hard to watch them.
It lasted 6-7 minutes. He was acting funny so I went and grabbed the crushed ice that I use to cool him down. (I apply it on the middle of back, it has been proven to help dogs with seizures and helps them come out of them faster.) Anyways, the Doctor gave me Valium for him to use rectally if he has a bad seizure. I didn't use it, I was about to but it stopped. He gave to me because Theo's last seizure was a status seizure (lasting longer than 5 minutes) and they are dangerous. This one was bad, he pee'd all over me, poor thing. For some reason when he starts his seizures he wants to be held. He jumps into my lap. So during this one, at 4 minutes when I thought it was calming down, his whole body tensed and he made a terrible sound like howling or something. He has never done this. Then it was over, just like that. He wasn't panting at all with this one like the last two.
I feel like I let him down, I didn't know if I should use the Valium. I was going to use it at 5 minutes but I was alone and holding him and it would have been very hard. The move was hard and I was with my family at the house for 5 years so this episode with Theo just knocked me off my feet. I never cry when he has them, I calmly talk to him and support him but this time I could not help but cry. Can you believe he was trying to lick my face afterwards and comfort me the poor thing. I gave him a big spoon of Haagen-dazs ice cream to bring his blood sugar back up. He loved it. As soon as it was over, he was back to normal. I mean he didn't even take a minute to relax. I had called my niece to bring the ice cream and when she came in he was all over her as if it never had happened. I heard sometimes it takes dogs hours to recuperate but not this little guy. Sorry this is so long, just needed to get it out. :sosad:

[oceangirls]

Kasia, don't beat yourself up over the difference between "5" and "6-7" minutes. Your dog wanted you to hold him, and that's what you did. You'll be prepared to give him the Valium next time (if there is a next time - maybe he won't have any more episodes like this :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: ). Sounds like he is recovering just fine :).

Sounds like a very stressful time for all of you. Dogs are such a comfort at these times, aren't they? :hug99: I'd suggest some ice cream for you as well.

[SasatheRusty]

That is very devastating for you to see.

[Rae]

Kas I am so sorry for Theo and for you... Sounds hellish. Thinking of you both.

[Frzframe]

Aww man. :hug99::hug99::hug99: and many :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Theo. I remember Lins saying that honey on the gums would help with seizures maybe keep some on hand in case he has another one.

[Patt]

OMGoodness that was really scary. I am so sorry. It's good Theo is feeling better now and has no memory of what happened. If at all possible I would try to give him the Valium if and when needed.

I second the suggestion of you having ice cream as well you can share. :)

[Kasianni]

Aww man. :hug99::hug99::hug99: and many :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for Theo. I remember Lins saying that honey on the gums would help with seizures maybe keep some on hand in case he has another one.

I am not sure I think it does the same thing as the ice cream? Is it to bring his blood sugar back up? Thank you for the rayz for Theo. :)

[Kasianni]

OMGoodness that was really scary. I am so sorry. It's good Theo is feeling better now and has no memory of what happened. If at all possible I would try to give him the Valium if and when needed.

I second the suggestion of you having ice cream as well you can share. :)

Indeed it was scary and he is feeling so much better today. In fact right after the seizure he was running around acting normal. I was going to give him the valium but I was trying to figure out how to move him and place him without hurting him since he was on my lap. He always wants me to hold him and gets into my lap when his seizures start. I also had a bag of crushed ice on his back while he was having the seizure to cool him down. Going to have to come up with a plan on how to do this if he has one again. Hoping he doesn't. I did have ice cream and home made waffles. Shared everything.

[Kasianni]

Kas I am so sorry for Theo and for you... Sounds hellish. Thinking of you both.

Thank you :)

[Kasianni]

Kasia, don't beat yourself up over the difference between "5" and "6-7" minutes. Your dog wanted you to hold him, and that's what you did. You'll be prepared to give him the Valium next time (if there is a next time - maybe he won't have any more episodes like this :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: ). Sounds like he is recovering just fine :).

Sounds like a very stressful time for all of you. Dogs are such a comfort at these times, aren't they? :hug99: I'd suggest some ice cream for you as well.

He did recover quite quickly. It is really hard when he is in a seizure to try and figure out how to get him the Valium as I have never done it before. I'll have to have a plan. Thank you for the rayz. :) They are indeed a comfort, I love these two so much. Did have some ice cream, and home made waffles, did the trick. :)

[SasatheRusty]

Hope you have a restful weekend. Ask the vet about how and when to give the medicine. You may need gloves.

[Alex's Mom]

Aww, Kasia, I know how upsetting the seizures are...just remember that they aren't in any pain. It's the aftermath that's a bit disorienting for them sometimes. However, if you can get the Valium into him, that would definitely help (speaking from my experience with Wen). Sounds like this was the last straw in a really stressful week. Keep us posted, ok? :hug99::hug99: (I wonder if the seqizures are related to his having parvo at such an early age?)

[lotsadox]

Oh, Kasia, I'm so sorry. I wasn't online last night at all and didn't see this until now. I agree though, don't beat yourself up about not getting the valium. You aren't a vet and it's hard to administer drugs to a seizing dog all by yourself. You did the best you could. It appears that being held and having ice cream was what Theo needed anyway :) Sending :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

[Kasianni]

Oh, Kasia, I'm so sorry. I wasn't online last night at all and didn't see this until now. I agree though, don't beat yourself up about not getting the valium. You aren't a vet and it's hard to administer drugs to a seizing dog all by yourself. You did the best you could. It appears that being held and having ice cream was what Theo needed anyway :) Sending :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz:

Thank you for the rayz. :) I am going to have to learn how to administer the Valium since I am alone now. Its so hard to hold him and do that though because he really wants me to hold him.
He loved the ice cream, as did I. :)

[Kasianni]

Aww, Kasia, I know how upsetting the seizures are...just remember that they aren't in any pain. It's the aftermath that's a bit disorienting for them sometimes. However, if you can get the Valium into him, that would definitely help (speaking from my experience with Wen). Sounds like this was the last straw in a really stressful week. Keep us posted, ok? :hug99::hug99: (I wonder if the seqizures are related to his having parvo at such an early age?)

Are they really in no pain when their tiny bodies are thrashing like that?? Yesterday was the first time I saw that seizures actually happen in stages. I knew he was going to have one because his eyes looked glazed over and he was quiet for a minute. Then his head was bobbing for a few minutes but then all his limbs tightened and he shook violently and he let out a little yell which freaked me out since it was the first time. Then it was over, and he got up and ran around. Paula, did you ever have to administer Valium rectally with Wen? If so, was it difficult? I really have to call my vet because he gave me a vile of Valium that has a bit more then 2ml in it and he told me to use all this but Theo is tiny I think its too much. I don't know what causes them, I thought it was the Revolution I used on him but he is not on it anymore, I switched to Heartguard. It could very will be from the Parvo, he was quite ill. His blood work is all normal so I have no clue. He use to have many ear infections but has not had one for a long time, I was even thinking that might cause them but I don't know. Its frustrating. Thank you Paula for your input. :hug99:

[Kasianni]

Hope you have a restful weekend. Ask the vet about how and when to give the medicine. You may need gloves.

Thank you, I shall try. I am going to call him on Monday. Gloves are a good idea but I would not want to waste time putting them on while he is in a full blown seizure. Its a difficult situation.

[alfina]

If you vet says to administer it all, you need to follow your vet's advice. They know how much per weight is allowed, etc. I wouldn't question it. Is the valium in suppository form?
If it is, you just take it and push it into his anus opening. It usually slides in pretty easy as they are shaped as cone on one end.

[Kasianni]

If you vet says to administer it all, you need to follow your vet's advice. They know how much per weight is allowed, etc. I wouldn't question it. Is the Valium in suppository form?
If it is, you just take it and push it into his anus opening. It usually slides in pretty easy as they are shaped as cone on one end.

No, its not in suppository form, its in a small glass vile, injectable form, I have a syringe with a small catheter that I am to attach to the syringe and then inject it through the rectum that way. The reason why I question it, is that I have spoken to a few people who have 60 pound dogs and they use the same amount. I trust my vet but they can make errors. For instance, when I first got the Valium the vet tech asked me if I wanted the Valium put in a syringe so it was ready. I said sure, thought it would be easier. Valium is very sensitive to light so she put it in the syringe, and wrapped it with a dark elastic bandage. I went home happy I had a back up if Theo's seizures were bad. I went on line did some research about Valium and how to properly use it. Well, turns out Valium can not be stored in a plastic syringe, which they gave it to me in. Needs to be in a glass syringe because the Valium reacts with plastic. I called the vets, and they put me on hold to go ask the vet and turns out I was right and had to go back and get a new vile. So this is why I do question the amount. Valium leaves the body very quickly but I still think its a bit much. I'll call again to make sure.

[Alex's Mom]

Good for you, Kasia!!!!! Go with your gut...and a bit of investigation. Theo's lucky to have you as a mom :hug99::hug99: Vets are only human and they (and their staff) can make mistakes too.

I only ever gave Wen Valium orally...he had a different kind of seizures: psychomotor seizures, where the seizure itself wasn't like a grand mal as you're describing with Theo, but like a coma, and very short. It was the aftereffects that were so hard to deal with, because poor little boo was absolutely terrified, and would start to pace uncontrollably; this could go on for hours. This is a hallmark of this type of seizure and why he was on daily meds for it. In his case with his very bad heart, there was a huge danger that he'd have a heart attack from the panic. That's where the valium came in, to calm him down. But it was panic AFTERWARDS, not during. Everything I've read about grand mal seizures (including in humans) indicates that the person/being suffering it isn't aware that it's happening at the time. It's the aftereffects that need monitoring. And if ice cream works, go for it (I've long said that ice cream is the solution to everything, including, quite possibly, world peace!! :))

[AmyinFL]

I'm on my phone so I will make it short. I have epilepsy and I can tell you first hand that there is no pain during a seizure. There might be some muscle aches and disorientation after but nothing during. One of the last one I had we found that my potassium level was really low. Can dogs eat bananas?

Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2

[SasatheRusty]

(My dogs love bananas).
I never heard of injecting anything through the rectum. You had better clarify the route of administration to be sure and how many cc's to draw up. Maybe they meant hind quarter.

[oceangirls]

I don't think I've ever heard any problems with dogs eating bananas, although my Cassie does not care for their smooshiness :). Melon is also high in potassium.

I can see the logic of giving the IV form rectally; rectal absorption is pretty fast... and for status epilepticus, you want fast. A suppository would take a little more time for the wax to dissolve. IV injection would be good, but that would be really hard for you to do! Especially while he is seizing. I don't have any clue on the doses, though. I would check my Merck Vet Manual, but I am not at home. Good for you for double-checking the vet & tech!

[Kasianni]

I don't think I've ever heard any problems with dogs eating bananas, although my Cassie does not care for their smooshiness :). Melon is also high in potassium.

I can see the logic of giving the IV form rectally; rectal absorption is pretty fast... and for status epilepticus, you want fast. A suppository would take a little more time for the wax to dissolve. IV injection would be good, but that would be really hard for you to do! Especially while he is seizing. I don't have any clue on the doses, though. I would check my Merck Vet Manual, but I am not at home. Good for you for double-checking the vet & tech!

My dogs love bananas in fact he had some before the seizure. Right on about the suppository, vet said it would take too long to work and that recal absorption is very fast. I don't think I could do IV injection, although the vet did suggest it. He moves around so much I'd be scared to do damage. If ever you have the time to check the Merck Manual, I'd really appreciate it.

[Kasianni]

(My dogs love bananas).
I never heard of injecting anything through the rectum. You had better clarify the route of administration to be sure and how many cc's to draw up. Maybe they meant hind quarter.


My two love bananas as well. I am not actually injecting it with a needle, just drawing it up with the syringe and the catheter is very small so it won't bother him going in. Just squirting the liquid Valium in, as it is absorbed very quickly through the rectum. I wouldn't be able to do IV injection alone, could cause some damage.

[alfina]

I have Davis's drug guide here, Kim. On the vial you have there should be concentration. Is it 5mg/mL solution? How much does he weigh? I assume the vet would use the child dose and it needs to be calculated with weight in mind.

[Kasianni]

Good for you, Kasia!!!!! Go with your gut...and a bit of investigation. Theo's lucky to have you as a mom :hug99::hug99: Vets are only human and they (and their staff) can make mistakes too.

I only ever gave Wen Valium orally...he had a different kind of seizures: psychomotor seizures, where the seizure itself wasn't like a grand mal as you're describing with Theo, but like a coma, and very short. It was the aftereffects that were so hard to deal with, because poor little boo was absolutely terrified, and would start to pace uncontrollably; this could go on for hours. This is a hallmark of this type of seizure and why he was on daily meds for it. In his case with his very bad heart, there was a huge danger that he'd have a heart attack from the panic. That's where the valium came in, to calm him down. But it was panic AFTERWARDS, not during. Everything I've read about grand mal seizures (including in humans) indicates that the person/being suffering it isn't aware that it's happening at the time. It's the aftereffects that need monitoring. And if ice cream works, go for it (I've long said that ice cream is the solution to everything, including, quite possibly, world peace!! :))

Aww thanks Paula, but I am the lucky one to have Theo. :) I do know of some people that give the Valium rectally and then 20 minutes later orally, seems both ways work well together.
Theo is fine right after, no panic nothing, I don't see aftereffects, he acts like nothing at all happened. He doesn't even take 1 minute to recuperate. He gets up and off he goes. It is I that needs time to get over it. The ice cream seems to work, I read that after a dog has a seizure, when its safe, feed them because its like they have run a marathon, takes all their energy and the ice cream is suppose to bring their blood sugar up. I just wish that he'd never have another seizure.

[Kasianni]

I'm on my phone so I will make it short. I have epilepsy and I can tell you first hand that there is no pain during a seizure. There might be some muscle aches and disorientation after but nothing during. One of the last one I had we found that my potassium level was really low. Can dogs eat bananas?

Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for sharing that info Amy, I am glad that humans don't suffer during a seizure, and dogs as well. Your potassium was low after the seizure? I wonder if having low potassium levels can bring on a seizure. Funny thing, I had a banana yesterday afternoon, and shared some with the pups, maybe not enough.

[alfina]

Thanks for sharing that info Amy, I am glad that humans don't suffer during a seizure, and dogs as well. Your potassium was low after the seizure? I wonder if having low potassium levels can bring on a seizure. Funny thing, I had a banana yesterday afternoon, and shared some with the pups, maybe not enough.

Potassium effects muscle tone not the nervous system. Too much potassium is also bad. So, I wouldn't load him up with it because too much potassium can lead to respiratory muscle weakness and reduced heart rate. That is why in the hospitals those levels are tested and once someone is put on a potassium supplement, the blood test is repeated daily at least.

[SaxLady]

Kasia, I just saw this. Words can't express how much I care that you and Theo will be just fine. If you have his birthday, I can run his astrology chart. It might help in being prepared for the times a seizure could be likely and take proper precautions. You can send me a pm. :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: for both of you.

[Mama S.]

Oh I suck - Did not even see this. AM soooooo very sorry honey - am hoping that the both of you have gotten over the major oh sh*t and are on the road to happiness and Hagen Daz!!! :hug99::hug99::hug99:

[LexieLuvr]

I am so sorry you both had to go through all that! Sending a TON of feel-better :bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz::bigrayz: to both of you!