Back discussions with vets...

[BeauBuddy]

Since we've been dealing with Georgia's wobbly back end and reading about the dogs on here, I was recalling when we took our first dachshund to the vet and they would say something like, "You know they can have back problems, right?" Back problems. I looked at the long back and thought, well, yeah, that's a long back, bet it can get sore. Those words never really 'grabbed' my attention. I got a very quick lesson when Basil one day had a wobbly back end.

I never heard the words "Spinal cord injury" or "possible paralysis in the back end with loss of bladder and bowel function". Has anyone here heard these words by the vet before you came in with a downed dog? OK, words like that would seriously have gotten a lot more attention than 'back issues'. Maybe from day one, more owners would be aware of issues and really be proactive in maintaining good habits and practice crate rest.

There is a lot of information now for new owners on the internet. Did your vet ever say words like 'paralysis' or 'spinal cord injury', or did they simply say 'back problems'?

[lotsadox]

My vet never mentioned anything and I think that that is appropriate. If someone has already committed to owning a dachshund what would be the point in scaring the beegeezus out of them by saying 'Well, you know, he could be paralyzed?" I have come to believe that IVDD is more a case of genetics than environment so it's not really something that can be totally avoided so all the vet is going to do is scare the new owner and possibly cause them to dump the dog out of fear.

I think vets want your pet ownership experience to be positive and try to make it so. Not all dachshunds have back issues much less are down. I think that unless the owner specifically asks and wants details it would be inappropriate for a vet to mention paralysis and spinal cord injury unless there are signs of either condition.

Dachshunds are also prone to Pannus like Miller has. I wouldn't want some vet to tell me when I brought in my 1 year old dog "You know he might be blind?"

[BeauBuddy]

I wasn't thinking of telling a puppy owner so much but when the dog is older. At 3 or 4 yrs old, I think it would be prudent. I'm glad there are dachshund forums to help owners now.

[Alex's Mom]

When I did dachsie rescue, I would make sure that prospective adopters (esp those who had never had anything to do with dachshunds) were aware of the potential for back issues, and what it could entail. I always saw it as part of the breed education bit. But I wouldn't approach it as a "this is what's going to happen" but as "the breed is prone to this, this is what it entails, and you need to be aware of it and most importantly, if you take one of our dogs, you're prepared to go the distance no matter what." I think it should be mentioned for sure to people, but not in a scary way :).

[Lisa]

What would be awesome is if vets said, if you see THIS (ie., wobbling, dragging, something being "off"), it is an emergency and you need to get them on immediate crate rest and bring them into the office stat. And not just for Doxies, but all breeds that have a chance to have a major genetic issues health issue. It also wouldn't hurt for vets to stress crates for doxies at puppy hood. Not crate 24/7 but just have the dog comfortable in the crate so if the day ever comes you and the dog are both prepared.

I think it was Paula that posted on facebook, how not to be a jerk at the vet, and a big part of that was "I read on the internet...." Vets are highly trained DOCTORS, so I totally get why that would annoy the crap out of them. But likewise, I think all vets love love love animals, and if they knew of great resources like Dodgers List they also might realizes that there is some really awesome information out there and 99.9% of it supports them, they might be able to reference people to them for additional information and comfort.

The only thing that totally annoys me is vets that say, you will need to put the dog down if paralysis happens. If the dog is in immense pain that the pain can not be managed over weeks / months, yes, you will have to have that conversation, but most of the time, drugs, crate rest and time works wonders. Throw in acupuncture / laser therapy and you have an excellent chance of recovery.

[BeauBuddy]

What would be awesome is if vets said, if you see THIS (ie., wobbling, dragging, something being "off"), it is an emergency and you need to get them on immediate crate rest and bring them into the office stat.
The only thing that totally annoys me is vets that say, you will need to put the dog down if paralysis happens. If the dog is in immense pain that the pain can not be managed over weeks / months, yes, you will have to have that conversation, but most of the time, drugs, crate rest and time works wonders. Throw in acupuncture / laser therapy and you have an excellent chance of recovery.

The emergency part is what I was getting at. Over the years it's scary how many people do call the vet and then say they can get in on Wednesday, when it really is a true emergency! If the owner was aware, prompt vet care would happen.

Giving the owners an option to give it some weeks and see if there's improvement, I hope that's happening in vet offices. Glad there's info on the internet now.

[alfina]

about two month ago I stopped at my vet's office to pick up some Frontline. I had their coupon expiring and didn't want to miss out on the deal. While waiting I saw a lady carry in her dog (non-doxie) that was a good size dog. She started talking how her dog all of the sudden couldn't move her legs. She waited 2 days to see if it would get better on its own before she called the vet. She had no clue what was wrong. I talked to her and mentioned the name of the dr who did Sabrina's surgery. This dog owner was completely ignorant of the issue here and urgency.

Now, I suspect she doesn't know much about human health as well. I think the whole issue at hand is education. How responsible is our general population as dog owners. Before picking up a puppy, do the new owners read up on the breed or do they go to a puppy store and come home with a cutest puppy they saw?

I know someone who drives a MB, lives in a large home, I'd think well educated but is a first time dog owner. Their dog has patella issues and hops every other step. The family thought the dog just likes to walk funny like that. The dog has been to the vet several times for their annual. The vet said nothing to them. I told them what was wrong with him. They were also giving him the chicken jerky treats that were recalled and wondering why the dog is vomiting and not sleeping at night. Again I told them why, not their vet because I read and follow news every day and thanks to DLC I am an informed dog owner. They need a new vet! But the family doesn't know better!

When I first got dachsies, I read about the breed. But most books do not describe the symptoms. I only learned from the forum what exactly to look for and what reflexes to check. I researched what doctor in town does back surgeries. I was prepared when Sabrina started having problems. I knew exactly what to do and where to go. But that is on my own initiative. Now, I have a very nice vet, who knows dachsies. But they do not have time to educate owners. They are on the clock just like human doctors.

I believe it is owner's responsibility to educate themselves. Just as we read books about raising kids, their diseases, dog owners need to do the same about their dogs.

[SasatheRusty]

The forums do educate and the ability to share information makes us more comfortable and knowledgable when we go to the Veterinarian.

[Alex's Mom]

Good for you, Olga. I try to educate people when I can too, although it's not always well received. For instance, I was representing ElderDog at the annual Doggie Expo here yesterday (a dog-friendly event with 50 exhibitors, 4000 people and probably as many dogs :)). Our table was right in front of the entrance so we saw pretty much every dog that came in. This woman had a red smooth male dachsie and I SWEAR I thought it was Obie (the dachsie who was 77 lbs and is now down to 51 or 49 lbs)!!! This poor dog was so fat he could hardly walk. I made a point of going over to her to "say hi!" and mentioned VERY politely that he looked like he could stand to lose a few pounds. She laughed, called him Porky, and said "well, he only gets 1/2 cup of food a day but no exercise, so there's nothing I could do." Poor dog was 6, and I'm pretty sure heading for back and heart problems, which I mentioned to her. I was livid, but of course bit my tongue. So I told her about James and Jules when they came, and told what I did to help them lose weight, then asked her if she had maybe tried the green bean trick, and what did her vet say. Of course, he hasn't seen a vet in a while :conf4:. I also suggested that she try even throwing the ball a bit for him in the house (the wx here really has been pretty dreadful for about the past month). Anything to get him moving. One excuse after another. And he was a really sweet dog, friendly and lovely personality. It broke my heart to see him, cuz I'm guessing that as soon as he gets sick (and he will), she's the type who will euthanize him instead of trying to help him. It was just horrible. So educating is the way to go, but not everyone wants to BE educated!!! :wtf2:

[oceangirls]

In general I do think it would be helpful for vets to bring it up. Why wouldn't you be proactive with any potential medical problems? It's the same way your physician checks your family history for things like diabetes and colon cancer and then tells you what you can do to avoid those problems. Cocker spaniels are very prone to ear infection (one of mine eventually had to have both her ear canals surgically closed), so I think it's good for a vet to know that and help the owner learn to start cleaning them regularly when the dog is young.

Interesting story, though. When we got Tristan, we bought a dachshund book and read it thoroughly, so we knew they could develop "back problems." But it didn't really mention signs or symptoms. One day when he was about 3 or 4, he suddenly would not move his neck or turn his head and was in obvious pain. Now, all of us here would think "neck," right? Well, we had no clue. I called the e-vet, and they didn't seem to have any clue either, and they didn't even pressure me to bring him in :scratch: (TOTALLY unlike our e-vet here in FL :rolleyes: ) - just suggested to watch him and see our regular vet in the AM. Regular vet sedated him for x-rays and evaluation and they finally decided it was a middle ear problem.

By contrast, when Angel had pain and wouldn't jump, I immediately figured it was IVDD & crated her. First vet I saw said it might be a muscle spasm and gave us meds, but did not enforce crating. Second vet (whom we like) treated her appropriately for IVDD but still said it might be muscle-related, and did not push for 8 weeks crating (I think he was impressed that we did 5). I know they see a lot of doxies with back issues, but like Patrice mentioned, not all go down and not all have permanent damage, even though most owners probably do not do much more "crating" other than maybe try to stop them from jumping.

I tend to agree that it would be nice if vets would say, "they are prone to back problems which can sometimes be serious... here are the emergency signs you should know and bring them in right away if you see any of these, because this would mean surgery is needed." But sometimes I think that just after reading everything on dachshund forums and reading dodgerslist, I worry about it TOO much, and that's counterproductive :dunno:.

It's the same thing with humans... my job entails starting new patients on Coumadin and educating them about bleeding risks versus clotting risks. It's really a balance trying to make sure they use the drug safely and know what to watch for, but don't become extremely paranoid about little cuts or bleeding after they floss, or whatever (OR, on the other hand, decide, "I'm not taking this stupid rat poison!!! I'd rather have a stroke!").

Good topic!

[RustysMom]

I agree with all the above. Our first vet when we got Rusty, my first ever doxie, never ever said anything about what could happen to a dachshund. And remember I was a first time doxie owner who bought him at a store and knew nothing about dachshunds and got him because he was adorable (which I know better now) if it wasnt for DLC!!! I wouldnt have known a thing. We have a great vet now who does know all about the dachshund. I couldnt imagine being told your dog has to be put down from your vet. Thats what happened to Stephanie, OliversMom here on DLC (she doesnt visit much) and if she hadnt come to me she probably would have put Oliver down because her vet told her that was the only option or surgery. She saw our vet, Oliver was on crate rest and meds and he is alive and walking today with no surgery.

[lotsadox]

When I first got dachsies, I read about the breed. But most books do not describe the symptoms. I only learned from the forum what exactly to look for and what reflexes to check. I researched what doctor in town does back surgeries. I was prepared when Sabrina started having problems. I knew exactly what to do and where to go. But that is on my own initiative. Now, I have a very nice vet, who knows dachsies. But they do not have time to educate owners. They are on the clock just like human doctors.

I believe it is owner's responsibility to educate themselves. Just as we read books about raising kids, their diseases, dog owners need to do the same about their dogs.

That's exactly it, Olga. It all comes down to personal responsibility. It's the owner's responsibility to know what to expect.