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Lisa
04-20-2006, 10:02 AM
My vet just called with the bloodwork back from the boys and he said their phosphorus level was a little low in both of them, but the calcium was on the high side of normal. He was extremely happy with their protein level. He is not at all alarmed, he just kind of curious because they both were the same.

Basically what I understood as the calcium level goes up the phosphorus level drops. I know they get their calcium and phosphorus from bone, but does anyone know how to increase their phosphorus level alone, or is it "normal" for dogs on a Raw diet to have higher calcium and lower phosphorus levels then kibble fed dogs?

Anatresia
04-20-2006, 11:07 AM
Wow. I didn't know we had to worry about stuff like their "phosphorus levels"!

Would a multivitamin for dogs work?

Jen
04-20-2006, 11:42 AM
Wow, I'll be interested to hear the answer to this. Do you use any supplements?

Lisa
04-20-2006, 11:48 AM
No, never any supplements other than salmon oil. From what I understand, when calcium goes up the phosphorous goes down, so I don't think a multi-vitimin would work because it would have calcium in it.

Courtney
04-20-2006, 11:49 AM
I would not be so quick to pinpoint the diet here. If BOTH were off, I would ask him to retest at no charge to you because it could very well have been a problem with the equipment or the way the tests were run. And were they fasted for 12 hours before bloodwork? That can make a difference. I do not know about these levels and raw-fed dogs. Sometimes raw-fed dogs will show a higher BUN. I would ask on the big rawfeeding group or on the dachshund raw feeding group.

Courtney
04-20-2006, 11:51 AM
Also, if he did the bloodwork in-house, he may want to send it out for further testing to see what the results are.

Lisa
04-20-2006, 12:02 PM
No they were not fasted for 12 hours, they ate breakfast. He is in no way alarmed, they ARE within the normal range, just the calcium was on the high normal range and the phosphorous was in the low normal range. He doesn't have a lot of people who feed Raw in his practice, so he was just kind of curious if any others have had similar experiences. He doesn't want me to change their diet, in fact, he thinks Pogo is doing great, no tummy issues, better anal glands, amazing coat, less allergies, AND he's lost another 1/2 pound (so that is about 3 pounds down since we switched). He only wants Pogo to loose another 1/2 pound and then he thinks he will be perfect for his body type.

He does send the bloodwork out of office. Also no surprise both were dehydrated, as soon as we hit the vets office they loose all water!

Mama S.
04-20-2006, 12:12 PM
Hmmmm - never even thought those levels.. hoping that everything is ok..
Mama

Courtney
04-20-2006, 12:24 PM
Well that's good news then!! :) I am happy to hear they're doing so well. But yeah, I've never heard of that sort of thing.

oceangirls
04-20-2006, 12:57 PM
Lisa, I am more familiar with high phosphorus as occurs in kidney disease, than with low phosphorus, but honestly with a diet that is primarily meat, you would expect (if anything) the opposite of what your pups are showing :scratch: Since both boys had the same pattern though and they are NOT related, I would be inclined to look at diet/supplements - do they get a lot of calcium from bones? are you feeding a premix (sorry, I forget what you use) that is supplemented with phosphorus?

- OR - did they get into something they shouldn't have (something that would affect them both)?? Did they eat a bottle of TUMS? :D (calcium carbonate is a phosphate binder that they sometimes use in kidney failure patients). I'm kidding because I know you would not let them anywhere near a bottle of Tums :).

With both being affected it is most likely some external factor (if it was mine, it would be harder because they are sisters so of course I'd be thinking, "congenital hyperparathyroidism??!! parathyroid tumor??!!" in my usual panic mode).

Chances are it is nothing since the levels were within range. :) I will look at my veterinary manual when I get home though and let you know if I see anything else.

Bella's Mom
04-20-2006, 01:02 PM
I don't have any advice, I'm definitely not knowledgeable enough in the "phosphurous" field. :D Glad to hear the vet says they're doing good though! We love great news. :cheer2:

lotsadox
04-20-2006, 03:08 PM
If the vet isn't concerned and they are within the normal range, I wouldn't worry, but it is odd that both of them have the same levels. I would definitely look for an external factor. Could it be something in your water?

oceangirls
04-20-2006, 08:09 PM
Could it be something in your water?

good thought, Patrice - that crosssed my mind too :scratch:

Lisa
03-07-2011, 02:55 PM
I know this post is beyond old, but I just wanted to update that P'nut was tested on Saturday (March 5, 2011) and she also has low phosphorus. Everything else was perfect (calcium, protein etc).

Again, not alarming low by any stretch of the imagination. Just low compared to kibble fed dogs.

We have to go back on March 26th for Pixel and Pogo to get their annuals / heartworm / rabies, so I am going to discuss this with him in more detail.

Does anyone else here feed raw / home made and get full blood panels done?

lotsadox
03-07-2011, 03:04 PM
I feed Primal raw premix and have full blood panels done. My vet is really picky and has never mentioned a problem with the phosphorus levels. :dunno:

Edit: Okay, I had a few minutes and went looking around the internet and found that calcium/phosphorus balance appears to be a delicate one to keep when you are feeding homemade raw. Here's one intereting article I found. http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/reference-articles/news-articles/articles-to-come.html It seems to be saying that too many bones will raise the calcium levels and too much meat without bone will rase the phosphorus levels.

Lisa
03-07-2011, 03:21 PM
I feed Primal raw premix and have full blood panels done. My vet is really picky and has never mentioned a problem with the phosphorus levels. :dunno:

I am wondering if your vet sees a greater number patients who are on a raw diet? With my vet, I think we are the only ones who feed a homemade diet. Back in 2006 we were exclusive to Nature's Variety, now they have been on a homemade diet for over a year.

Patrice, next time you are in, if you could mention it to her and see what she has to say on the subject. Phosphorus levels in kibble vs. raw fed dogs does she see any fluctuation. Just for curiosity sake. I can't go back to kibble (even if I wanted to) as long as Pogo is with us due to his severe flax allergy.

lotsadox
03-07-2011, 03:25 PM
I'm sure that most of her clients are on a raw diet. In fact, I heard the receptionist tell one person on the phone that if she wasn't open to trying a raw diet, there was no use in making an appt. I'll ask her next time I'm in.

Most of the looking around that I did indicated that feeding meaty bones as well as meat was essential to keeping the phosphorus/calcium levels correct. I do remember adding bone meal or egg shells when I was doing homemade food as part of the recipe.

Lisa
03-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Edit: Okay, I had a few minutes and went looking around the internet and found that calcium/phosphorus balance appears to be a delicate one to keep when you are feeding homemade raw. Here's one intereting article I found. http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/reference-articles/news-articles/articles-to-come.html It seems to be saying that too many bones will raise the calcium levels and too much meat without bone will rase the phosphorus levels.

:thankyou: for doing the search! I am in a pickle (actually more why I find this interesting). P'nuts calcium is bang on perfect, so I can't drop her calcium in order to raise her phosphorus. I am not going to stress over it. I have come to the conclusion I have weird dogs...all of them :)

I do add eggshells to their diet as well as sardines for calcium. When I asked for the extra bloodwork on her, I wanted it to make sure her calcium was okay and that I was on target with their food. I guess because it is similar to when they were on NV, it's all good. Pogo was 5 then (wow!) and is going to be 10 this year (double wow!) and I swear he is better than ever and more like a puppy vs. when he was 3 so I am still a big fan of the diet.

nerdrock
03-07-2011, 09:50 PM
I have a copy of Sadie's past two full blood panels in PDF form if you'd like to take a look... the first she was on a home prepared raw diet and I think the second she may have been on kibble, but I can't remember...

nerdrock
03-07-2011, 10:04 PM
For anyone that's interested, I just looked at the results that I have for Sadie.

Both times she was on raw, the first (at 2 years) she had just started, the second (at 3 years) she had been on it for quite some time.

Calcium - 2.3 (low end normal)
Phosphorus - 0.9 (low end normal)

Calcium - 2.4 (low end normal)
Phosphorus - 0.68 (low)

Yolanda
03-07-2011, 10:12 PM
All of this is new to me and interesting to read. Hopefully there will no issues for the P's.