Breeding

[RosaC]

Hey all. My friend has two male Dachshunds. Cheeko, a 4 year old Black and Tan Dapple....&....Peavey, a 2 year old Double Dapple. Cheeko has been bred before, but she was wanting to know what the appropriate breeding ages are. She breeds with her mother's Dachshund. Anyway, what are the appropriate age ranges? I know they shouldnt be bred until 2 years of age, but how long after that is appropriate? She'll appreciate any advice given...

[michelehbc]

Is there any way to block Cat from seeing this post?

[alfina]

I think it is not just Cat who would be unhappy to see this. I would be another one.

If your friend knows nothing about breeding, does not show her dogs in confirmation, she has NO business at all to be even considering it.

[catstamm]

TOO LATE MICHELE!!!!!!
Have your friend read this .... perhaps she will reconsider ...FOR the LOVE of Dachshunds!
Ten Reasons to Breed Your Dachshund
by Cherri Thomson
1.. He/she is registered with the Kennel Club of your country, and you have in your possession a 5 generation (minimual requirement) pedigree. You have personally seen at least the parents (and preferably several generations of relatives of your dog and know that they are true representatives of the breed.

2.. The pedigree of your dog contains numerous Champions in Conformation, Obedience and/or Field work. This means at least 50% to 75% of dogs named in the pedigree contain the word Ch. or OTCH. or Fld Ch. or CD, CDX, UD, TD in the dog's name. AND, your dog has completed a Championship in some recognized AKC/CKC or other recognized kennel club events. This proves your dog is a reasonable representative of the breed, and fits the conformational standard for your breed, making offspring produced by your dog an asset to future generations.

3.. The pedigree of your dog is not in-bred or too closely line-bred.
Common ancestors in the first and second generations is an example of
In-breeding, in the third and further back generations, common ancestors indicate Line-breeding, which is an accepted and desirable part of most top bloodline pedigrees.

4.. Your dog is in excellent physical condition, suffers from NO health problems. Has good skin condition, is not allergic to anything, and is not obese or anorexic. You have kept your dog's vaccinations current and boosters of all vaccines have been given in the past 4 to 8 months. Your dog has been examined by a qualified veterinarian in the past 2 to 6 months.Your female is at least 2 years of age (but not over 6 years of age), and has had at least 2 heat seasons. Your male is at least 12 months of age and not over 12 years of age.

5.. You have researched the previous generations in your dog's pedigree and KNOW what health problems have been seen in related animals. There is no history of disc disease in the immediate relatives of your dog. There is no history of PRA or other eye diseases in the pedigree of your dog. You know that vWD and other immune mediated diseases are not a problem in the dogs in your dog's pedigree.

6.. You have more than a few people wanting puppies from your dogs. This means deposits of cash to confirm a reservation on a puppy. It is amazing how, once the puppies are born, that Aunt Mabel is no longer able to have a puppy, or your neighbour bought a Schnauzer instead! Dachshund litters can range from 1 to 10 puppies. Common size of litters is 4 to 6. Litters of 8 to 10 are not unusual. You are prepared to keep the puppies for as long as it takes to find the PERFECT home for them, and you are also prepared that if at any time, one of the puppies you bred no longer has a home, you will take it back until YOU can find it a new home. You are also prepared to guarantee your puppies are sound and healthy and offer a minimum 2 year hereditary defect guarantee. This means if the puppy you produced should fall seriously ill or die from a genetic or hereditary defect, you will give a full refund and/or pay the vet bills. You are also offering a 72 hour contagious disease guarantee.

7.. You have the financial wherewithal to pay for any and all veterinary expenses. This means pre-breeding vet checks, vaccinations, worming updates, recommended health certifications like vWD and PRA, and so on. You will be vaccinating all the puppies with whatever vaccinations your veterinarian advises until they are sold to new homes. (this could mean 4 shots at some $30 to $50 per shot, per puppy) You can afford to pay for a C-section ($600 to $1000) if a whelping goes wrong. You can afford to feed mom and the pups the top of the line premium dog foods. Realize that mom will eat 3 to 4 times her normal ration while lactating and puppies will consume vast quantities of food. You are able to stay home for up to a week during the "DUE DATE" time and to be there for the entire whelping to help mom if needed. You are also prepared for supplementing the pup's food by bottle feeding every 2 to 4 hours, round the clock if mom should be unable to feed
them, or worse yet, die during whelping. (YES, this is a risky thing to
breed your female. They can and do suffer major complications in whelping).

8.. You have researched the pedigree of both parents to determine that the pedigrees are complimenting each other. The sire you choose for your female dog is chosen for his bloodlines and breed traits, rather than for his close proximity or free stud service! This means that desirable breed traits will be seen in both parents and undesirable breed traits will not be duplicated when breeding these two dogs together. If both parents are oversize, then expect the puppies to be too. If one or both parents have roaching toplines, or bad teeth alignment, or bad temperament, then expect the same in the puppies.

9.. BOTH parents have proper Dachshund temperament. NO shyness, not
aggressive to people or other dogs. They are happy and friendly to strangers and people they know alike. Your dog is a well adjusted member of your family without undesirable temperament traits that would be passed on to the offspring.

10.. Your dog closely as possible fits the AKC/CKC Standard of conformation for the breed. He/she is not over or undersize. He/she has correct coat, colour and markings, level topline, good bite (teeth alignment, not the ability to gnaw on things!) proper front and rear structure, pleasing appearance and 'breed type'. The breeding of this dog will add valuable genes to the breed, and the resulting puppies will be an asset to future generations.
If you can truthfully say the above list fits the reasons (and there are many more reasons I could add here!) you are breeding your Dachshund, then for what its worth, you have my blessing! If not, please don't breed your dog. There are countless unwanted animals, including Dachshunds, ending up in shelters and rescue organizations because of irresponsible breeding. Please don't contribute to the problem.

by Cherri Thomson
NO EDITING WAS DONE TO THIS ARTICLE!

[Courtney]

This is a gentle reminder to keep posts educational and informative! This board promotes responsible breeding and is rescue-friendly as well, but please let's keep the friendly part in there. Can someone post about the problems that can arise when you breed double dapples? A little education can go a long way. I would post but I've got to run. Thanks guys.

[catstamm]

QUESTIONS FOR THE POTENTIAL BREEDER by

Jane Johnson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many people think that breeding dogs is easy. However, the reality is quite different.

I often have people email me who want to breed, and invariably their b i t c h has just come into season, and they want to breed without having the skills or the knowledge. At best, this is careless. If your b i t c h is in season, and you are asking questions now, then do NOT breed her. Wait until you are properly trained and mentored.


If you do not have the competencies required to facilitate the breeding of your b i t c h, the raising of puppies, and the placement of puppies, it is irresponsible and unethical to breed until you have.
As a starting point, if you can answer the following questions, then you'll be well on the track to being ready to breed. If you can't answer 90% of these, don't even bother attempting to breed until you can:


Setting yourself up right
What does dog conformation refer to?
How can you test if my dog has the correct conformation?
What important points should be considered on a dog's pedigree?
How many championships should be listed in a pedigree prior to breeding?

The beginning of the season
When will a b i t c h first come into season?
Should a b i t c h be bred on her first season?
How old should a b i t c h be before breeding commences?
On what grounds should a b i t c h not be bred from?
On what days is a b i t c h fertile?
How long is a b i t c h in season?

Breeding the dogs
On what day's should a b i t c h be bred?
What is a studmaster and when should they be used?
On what attributes is a stud dog selected?
What health testing should both the dam and dog have prior to breeding?
How old should a dog be before he is used at stud?
What are the responsibilities of a stud dog owner?
What are the important contract items to have in a breeding contract?
On what grounds should a dog be neutered?
What diseases can a dog get while being bred?
When should a dog be allowed near an in season b i t c h?
How does the breeding actually take place?
Does there need to be a tie for a breeding to have taken place?
What is AI and when should it be conducted?
Who should conduct the AI and what specific precautions should be taken?
Why is the stud dog turned during a breeding?
How many times should a b i t c h be bred?
Can a litter have more than one father?
Where must a b i t c h be kept while she is in season?

Gestation
How long is a b i t c h's gestation?
What special diet should the b i t c h be fed while in season, and while pregnant?
Under what special circumstances should additional calcium be fed to a pregnant b i t c h?

Whelping
What are the signs that a b i t c h is going into labour?
What is the best type of whelping box arrangements?
Where should the b i t c h be when she whelps?
What are the signs that the whelping is going well?
What are the signs that there are problems developing?
When should a c-section be performed?
What is primary inertia and the implications?
What is secondary inertia and the implications?
What is oxytocin?
When should the vet be called for help?
Should calcium be administered during whelping?
What does green fluid indicate?
How long should it take for a b i t c h to whelp?
What is the incidence of puppy deaths in each litter?
What is a breech birth, how often does it happen, and what are the problems that can result?
What are the implications for a pup born out of the sac?
How do you ensure that each placenta is accounted for, and what do you do if they are not?
What should be done with the placenta?
How do you resuscitate a dead puppy?
How do you clear fluid from a puppy's lungs?
How many extra set of hands should you have at a c-section?
When should oxygen be administered to puppies?
When should puppies first fed from the dam?
How do you check for cleft palate?
How are puppies who are deformed managed?

Caring for the mother
What should the dam be fed while she is looking after puppies?
What are the signs of infection in the b i t ch?

Caring for puppies
What are the signs that the puppies are progressing well?
What are the signs that the puppies are in trouble?
What is mastisis and how is it treated?
What do you do if the dam's milk does not come in?
How do you bottle feed a puppy, and what do you use?
How do you tube feed a puppy?
How can you tell if a puppy is feeding well?
How can you tell if a pup has received enough milk?
How can you check to see if a pup is dehydrated?
What is fading puppy syndrome and how do you rescue a puppy from it?
What are the common problems to be aware of when raising the puppies?
When do you introduce "real food" to puppies?
Why should puppies never be given "baby food"?
Why should puppies not be given grains to eat?
Should puppies be vaccinated?
Should puppies be wormed?
Under what conditions should a puppy be culled and how?
Under what conditions should a puppy be wormed and/or vaccinated?

Placing puppies
How do you choose puppy buyers?
What responsibilities do you have as a breeder for those pups?
What sort of guarantees are you going to offer the buyers?
How do you ensure your puppy buyers are going to look after the puppies?
When and how do you temperament test puppies?
How do you match the right puppy with the right person?
When do you remove the dam from the puppies?
When should the puppies be totally weaned?
How are puppies house trained?
When are puppies first socialised and how?
What sort of puppy pack information are you going to provide to the buyers?
When do you start training the puppies?
What breeder support are you offering once the puppies have gone?

Rhona's comments
I hope this too helps folk to think again about going into breeding dogs with out giving it serious thought. I decided I would like to breed dachsies nearly 4 yrs ago and I am still at the preperation stage, finding the right dogs and getting them to maturity, finding a mentor who will help and advise me through the stages,tells me why certain studs I may like the look of are not what I need and why and also tells me which stud owners get their dachsies DNA tsted for PRA and which don't. Advising me that if I get my Male DNA tested for PRA he will then be in demand as an outside stud as he is a lovely example of the breed with a good pedigree. So it just goes to show that alot of work has to be done before you even think of putting two dogs together.

END QUOTE by

Jane Johnson
NO EDITTING WAS DONE TO THIS ARTICLE

[quavec]

This is a gentle reminder to keep posts educational and informative! This board promotes responsible breeding and is rescue-friendly as well, but please let's keep the friendly part in there. Can someone post about the problems that can arise when you breed double dapples? A little education can go a long way. I would post but I've got to run. Thanks guys.

Big

As to the problems that can arise from breeding double dapples, just from what I've learned online, there are TONS of problems but the ones that come to mind for me are deafness and blindness.

I've been told many times that anyone with a dapple should really know the health background of both dogs as far back as they can go - not just back to the parents - so that any health issues that could arise won't.

Even reputable breeders who have researched their dogs' health histories have come upon a health surprise or two.

It's just very risky - TOO risky, IMHO - when there are so many shelters, rescues and foster homes overflowing with dogs needing a good home.

[LUVMYGUNNER]

Great advise Cat. There are a few websides on double dapples she needs to look at. You should never breed a dapple to dapple and certainly not a dapple to a daouble dapple.
She should do a lot more research before she does. she is not only putting her female at risk but also the puppies.
Petunia is a dapple. Her mom we think was a puppy miller she had 2 pups that were born with double cleved palets---they cannot survive one their own, one died one had to be PTS. Petunia and her brother were the only ones that survived.
Why put a female pup that you love very much thru this!

[catstamm]

Begin quote: http://www.dachshund.org/article_double_dapple.html
What is a Double Dapple?
If both the sire and the dam of a puppy are dappled, they both have an equal chance of passing on their dominant dapple gene to the puppy. The sire may flip over the dapple gene, and the dam may flip over the non dapple gene. In this case, the sire's dapple gene would be dominant and that puppy would be a dapple. This confuses a lot of people. How can a dapple dog have a non dapple gene? It is easy to forget that every dog has a winning pile...what you see on the outside, and a losing pile...the recessive gene that is hidden. If each dog only had one gene to contribute, there would never be variety in the dogs. When two dogs breed, the recessive genes are shuffled with the dominant genes so that they have a chance to manifest themselves. If the recessive gene meets up with another recessive gene, it finally gets its chance to be in the winning pile. However if the recessive gene again meets a dominant gene, it has to wait another generation for the chance to dominate.
It is also possible for both the sire and the dam to flip over their non dapple genes. If this is the case, it becomes a 'draw' and the puppy is not dappled.

And finally, it is possible for both the sire and dam to flip over their dapple genes. Again, it is a draw, but something totally different happens. We'll say that the sire's dapple gene gets to go in the winning pile. The puppy is now dappled. But the dam also contributed a dominant dapple gene. Her gene says, "Whoa, wait a minute buddy! What do you think this is, the 19th century? I demand equal rights here! I want a chance to dapple this puppy and the 19th Amendment guarantees me that right!"

So the dam's dapple gene goes to work, after the sire's gene has already made the puppy dapple. Since it's anybody's guess as to where the dapple gene will hit (remember the sponge painting in the first chapter?), the outcome will vary greatly. We'll assume, for ease of understanding, that the sire dappled the tail, and nothing more. The rest of the puppy was a normal color and untouched by the dapple. The dam's gene is mad at almost missing out on her chance, so she dapples the entire body...from head to tail. The areas that the sire's dapple gene left untouched would now be dappled by the dam's dapple gene. However, the area that the sire's gene did dapple (the tail) would be dappled again.

Let's go back to the paint. You finished the first coat of green and then finished sponging white paint over the wet green paint. Now dip the sponge in the white paint again. What do you think will happen when you start sponging the walls again? The areas that did not get touched by the first sponging, would now have the marbled look, but the areas that were marbled the first time would now appear totally white. This is precisely what happens when the dapple gene is allowed to act twice on the same area.

So, What's Wrong with a Double Dapple?
For reasons unknown, the combination of two dapple genes hitting the same area of the dog can be lethal. I have seen double dapple puppies born with no eyes, and/or no ears. Blindness and/or deafness is also caused by the double dapple gene. On the other hand, a double dapple can be born with no deformities at all.
There are no facts or figures available (that I have found) that tells us how many dogs like this dog have been whelped. The double dapple pattern is an acceptable pattern that is recognized by AKC. In my opinion, if AKC continues to allow this pattern (which can only be achieved by breeding two dapples together, so it is totally preventable) to be recognized, then serious studies should be done to look at the damage being done to the dogs. I, for one, feel that even one dog like this is not worth the risk of a million healthy dogs.

Why Would Anyone Do This?
For every deformed double dapple, there is a different excuse. Here are a few of those 'excuses' and a few solutions.
1. Simple ignorance: Genetics are a complicated matter and many breeders won't even take the time to try to learn.
Solution: TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN! There are two foundation books on genetics. Both are excellent books but both are out of print. Try your local library!

"Genetics of the Dog: Malcolm Willis"

" Inheritance of Coat Color in Dog: Clarence Cook Little"

2. Genetic background unknown: Although the only way to get a double dapple is to breed two dapples together, there are many people that don't know they own a dapple.

a. Red dapples often fade as they get older. A Doxie that was poorly dappled at birth, and is red it color, will probably not be recognized as a dapple later in life.

Solution: Don't breed reds to dapples. If you do, make sure you examine every puppy from head to toe at birth. This is when the dappling is most noticeable. Be sure to mark a puppy as a dapple, even if it has no hint of dapple at eight weeks of age.

b. Other colors of dapples are often so lightly dappled, they are not marked as dapple on their papers.

Solution: Again, be sure to record dapples at birth. A good sign of a dapple (assuming one of the parents was a dapple) is if a puppy has any blue flecks in the eyes. The dapple pattern can color the iris of the eyes, just as it covers the color of the coat. When the dapple pattern hits the iris, it turns it blue, like that of a Siberian Husky. Since the dapple pattern is so sporadic, it can hit just a spot on the eye, causing a normal color eye with a tiny blue fleck. Always mark blue eyed or partial blue eyed pups as dapples if there is even the slightest chance that it is a dapple.

3. Mistaking double dapples for piebalds: This is the most aggravating of all the mistakes made. Without getting into the genetics behind a piebald, I will tell you that a piebald is a normal color Doxie with varying amounts of white. A piebald does not have dapple. A piebald does not have blue eyes, or partial blue eyes. A Piebald is normally marked symmetrically...meaning that if one ear is black, the other ear is black. If one paw is white, the other paw is white. If one side of the face is white, the other side is equally white. A double dapple is not symmetrical. You will often see one leg normal colored and the other leg totally white. One side of the face can be white and the other side dappled. These are the easiest way to tell if a dog is double dappled or piebald.

Solution: If you aren't sure if your dog is double dapple or piebald, look at the pedigree! A double dapple will always have a dappled dam and a dappled sire. A piebald can come from any color, but you will normally see piebald in the background. Since piebald is recessive, it is possible to have two plain black & tans produce a piebald. However ONLY TWO DAPPLES can produce a double dapple. The ultimate test of a double dapple is to breed it to a plain colored dog. If the puppies are dapple, your dog is a double dapple!

Note: There is a lot of evidence of people marking double dapples as piebalds. I was curious to see what AKC had to say about it, so I called them and told them that I had a litter of Doxie puppies and one of the puppies had a lot of white on it. I was told that if the puppy had 50% or more white, to mark it as a piebald. This is absolute INCORRECT and DANGEROUS information! Use a combination of the info given to you here to determine if your dog is a double dapple or a piebald.

4. For the show ring: There is no doubt about it, a double dapple is stunning. The combination of dappling and white is flashy and many breeders purposely breed dapple to dapple in hopes of show prospects. If you know what you are doing; if you know the risks; if you don't mind the chance of deformed puppies; then "More Power to You."

Solution: I'm left to do my best Forrest Gump impression and say "...and that's all I got to say about that..."

5. Greed: If we go back to the genetics behind a double dapple, you will remember that a double dapple results when two dapples both contribute their dapple gene to one puppy. That puppy, if he goes on to breed, will have two dapple genes that will be shuffled and eventually dealt out into the gene pool. Since the dapple gene is dominant, and the only thing that puppy has is a dapple gene, there is a 100% chance that every, single puppy that dog produces will be a dapple.

In other words, a double dapple will ALWAYS produce dapple puppies, even when bred to a normal color dog (black & tan, chocolate & tan, etc.). Since dapple puppies normally command a higher price, there are breeders who purposely breed dapple to dapple, in hopes of getting a double dapple. That double dapple can then be used to produce all dapple puppies...all of his life. It is interesting to note, that even a dog which is totally blind and deaf will NEVER produce a deaf or blind puppy (providing that he isn't bred to another dapple or carrying some other genetic defect that causes deafness/blindness). The deafness/blindness seen in double dapples is only a result of the two dapple genes.

Solution: There is no solution for this sort of breeder. Greed is more powerful than compassion.
END quote: http://www.dachshund.org/article_double_dapple.html
NO EDITING WAS DONE TO THIS ARTICLE

[Rae]

Hi Rosa- having never bred my dog, I have no experience, however I do know that double dapples are a health disaster waiting to happen. (I've learned A LOT on this board, and there are several people who are very knowlegeable.)

Often blind and/or deaf, many are still born or live only a few hours. Congenital defects are rampant in double dapples, and I personally think it is an all around bad idea to breed with the odds stacked this highly against the possibility of healthy, live births.

Additionally, I would never, ever risk the life and health of my mommy dog to the possible complications (including her own death) that can occur during birth.

There are all too many dogs (of all breeds) in shelters, in rescue, and sadly being euthanized every day... I hope you'll remind your friend of that and hopefully she'll reconsider. The old law of supply and demand is in effect here, and the supply overwhelms the demand.

I think its great that questions are being asked before pregnancy occured!